3rd Rail Wishlist Request Future Engines

third rail posted:

At my club EVERYONE has a 4-8-4 because all the manufacturers made tons of them, but no one has or runs switch engines. It's one thing to run a long train with a big engine at the point. But it's just as satisfying to break up that train and make a new one for the next run. IMO switching a yard or industrial sidings can be more fun than watching a train chase its caboose . If manufacturers could bring to market a reasonably priced switch engine and continue to produce it over the years, there would be enough interest amongst us hobbyists that they would not have to resort to "built to order" sales. I would rather buy 4 switchers for the price of one $2000 built to order road engine that I have no use for. What I'm  saying is I think built to order stifles the hobby because if not enough preorders are received the company does not manufacture the product. 

I agree that there are not nearly enough "small" steam engines on the market.  3rd Rail has offered several over the years, but the reality of the marketplace (at least in the case of 3rd Rail / Sunset universe) is that R&D, parts sourcing, assembly, management, and several other functions cost about the same regardless of the size of the locomotive.  That $2000 Big Boy doesn't correlate to four 0-6-0's on a 1:1 basis.  It is more likely that the smaller engine runs in the $1400-$1500 range.  Buyers then react negatively to the price for the relative size of a switcher.  That is why you see so many 4-8-4 and articulated locomotives.  People buy them.

Here is one that 3rd Rail has a few left in stock of. 3rd Rail SP 0-6-0

The other reality of the marketplace is that we are not likely going to see any new cast steam locomotive tooling unless there is a huge resurgence in O scale.  The only way Lionel, MTH, and Williams can produce these at current costs is by amortizing the initial tooling cost over a lot of runs and many years.  With the decline in interest in O scale steam in general, producing new tooling is very risky for any company producing O scale product and could put a company out of business.  This is the main reason behind the Lionel hybrid concept.  Brass bodies over existing cast drive systems.  Brass doesn't require the tooling investment, but of course has a higher labor cost.  The result is less models can be produced to meet true market demand.  

Built to order only exists because inventory is a terrible business plan in this era.  Case in point is the JLC Silver GG1.  Many were manufactured, but demand turned out to be poor and what was a $800 locomotive went for $500 on discount to clear warehouse space.  Big boxes filling a warehouse cost money.  Those "blowout" models were likely either sold at cost or at a discount. 

I'm not trying to be negative at all about the suggestion for small steam.  I would love some steam switchers balance my roster. 

third rail posted:

No diecast engine is worth $700-800. I think manufacturers go for unique locomotives to cater to the pure collector market. If you sold 5000 $500 engines, you gross $2.5 mil. Do you think you can convince 1250 people to order a one of a kind locomotive to generate the same sales?

Again with this being a wishlist for 3rd Rail product, we can't get 75 orders to move a steam locomotive into design in most cases.  1250 orders is extremely rare anymore.  Consider that the Vision Line Big Boy was a huge success for Lionel and it only received a total of a little over 1000 units from what I understand. 

What an engine is worth is up to the buyer to decide.  Price is a function of what it costs to manufacture it plus a small profit to keep the manufacturer in business.

GG1 4877 posted:

That $2000 Big Boy doesn't correlate to four 0-6-0's on a 1:1 basis.  It is more likely that the smaller engine runs in the $1400-$1500 range.  Buyers then react negatively to the price for the relative size of a switcher.

Probably true. But I might be a buyer for a smaller locomotive in the $1400 price range but definitely not a big steam engine for $2000.

MELGAR

Hi there,

I'd buy 3 each of Norfolk and Western K1 engines and/or Class A engines.

I'd buy 2 each of Norfolk and Western Z1b engines and/or S1/S1a engines.

Several Z1b engines also went to Rio Grande, I do believe. It's just another legitimate name to put on them.

Sunset could easily do a better Class A than anything that is out there now. I'd think there would be an appetite for this iconic engine to be done well.

I guess that I would like a reasonably priced small  engine that many roads owned over an engine that only 1 road had. I have more use for a switcher on my point to point industrial layout than a big road engine.  But I think that if it comes down to oddball locomotives, my vote would go for the Santa fe hinged boiler articulated.  At least it would look decent going around O-72 curves!

What about more brass passenger cars?

I am also a big fan of small steam engines.  I own two of the recent 3rd Rail SP switchers.  They are fantastic engines.  My only complaint is the lack of a working coupler on the front of the locomotive.  Thankfully, I operate two rail equipment, so I only have to retrofit a Kadee coupler, not the larger tinplate coupler.  Considering even Lionel puts front couplers on their steam switchers, I was hoping for more, but beggars can't be choosers.

As far as wishlist locomotives (the point of this thread), anything Lackawanna (DL&W) or a re-run of SP Pacifics with skyline casings.  A diesel switcher, such as an Alco S-2 would be fantastic.

 

FYI...

http://mattforsyth.com/?p=31

Matt Forsyth

Forsyth Rail Services

 

 

Daniel Raible posted:

An Erie K-5-A Pacific would be great for pulling around a set of Golden Gate Depot passenger cars, but any Erie K-1 through K-5 variant would be much appreciated by Erie fans. 

I think there has only been one previous Erie Pacific offering by Max Gray models, but it must be pretty rare because I have yet to actually see one.

DM&IR Yellowstone 227

Ben

Other than a Rutland engine here or there.  3rdrail is pretty much making what I want already.  B&A H10 mikado, NYC F3, GP7/9.   Either are a go or near a go.  I'm sure will be in the poor house over these, and differently in the dog house over my reservations if the boss ever finds out.

I'm glad to see that there are so many steam engines yet to be built.  We just have to continue to be able to afford them.

  Sold my Vision Line Lionel ATSF 2-10-10-2 to a youngster; think about 42 yrs old.

Hope Hot Water isn't reading this, may have got the wheel arrangement wrong

Norm posted:

How about a fleet of U Boats?

 

Norm

Yeah, we need them for my "Rails to Reefs" program and put 'em where they'll actually be useful!!!

christopher N&W posted:

Hi there,

I'd buy 3 each of Norfolk and Western K1 engines and/or Class A engines.

Can't afford but one, but, this one is at the top of my list.

I'd buy 2 each of Norfolk and Western Z1b engines and/or S1/S1a engines.

A couple of S1a's would be nice.

Several Z1b engines also went to Rio Grande, I do believe. It's just another legitimate name to put on them.

Sunset could easily do a better Class A than anything that is out there now. I'd think there would be an appetite for this iconic engine to be done well.

I'd like to see an original version.

 

rex desilets posted:

CSX Troy posted:

I would still LOVE to see Scott make an accurate N&W hopper - either HL / H9 2 bays or H2 / H2a 3 bay in plastic to go along with the Y6's from a few years ago:  

       

If you're really lucky you may find one of these painted and decaled...why, you ask? Because only Champ made decals for them (H2a).

Not true. Here is a link to Great Decals. He makes an excellent set of N&W hopper decals in all scales.

Big Jim posted:

rex desilets posted:

CSX Troy posted:

I would still LOVE to see Scott make an accurate N&W hopper - either HL / H9 2 bays or H2 / H2a 3 bay in plastic to go along with the Y6's from a few years ago:  

       

If you're really lucky you may find one of these painted and decaled...why, you ask? Because only Champ made decals for them (H2a).

Not true. Here is a link to Great Decals. He makes an excellent set of N&W hopper decals in all scales.

Well, the site says they are new, so I may be forgiven for not knowing.

However...the decals are for the 2-bay cars. I have a few sets of those from other mfgrs; what am I gonna do for dimensional & weight data???

I would like to see the SD18

rex desilets posted:

Big Jim posted:

rex desilets posted:

CSX Troy posted:

I would still LOVE to see Scott make an accurate N&W hopper - either HL / H9 2 bays or H2 / H2a 3 bay in plastic to go along with the Y6's from a few years ago:  

       

If you're really lucky you may find one of these painted and decaled...why, you ask? Because only Champ made decals for them (H2a).

Not true. Here is a link to Great Decals. He makes an excellent set of N&W hopper decals in all scales.

Well, the site says they are new, so I may be forgiven for not knowing.

However...the decals are for the 2-bay cars. I have a few sets of those from other mfgrs; what am I gonna do for dimensional & weight data???

Rex,

IIRC, the Yoder cars are at least 10 years old and from what I have seen, the earliest runs were nothing more than factory painted brass bodies that were not lettered at all, nor did they come with trucks.    They run about $150 - $175 each and still need trucks and decals.   Even if you can get decals for any of the Yoder versions that may need them,  to be honest the only examples I have seen that actually look good were done with dry transfers and those are no longer available.    In fact, most N&W guys I know of in O scale  hoard those dry transfers for some odd reason, even though they have plenty of finished cars to last their lifetime.   I believe later runs of the H2a's did come factory lettered with Yoder trucks but those are usually about $325 - $375.   The Yoder cars are an excellent, high quality model, but investing 20 - 30 grand in a model of an N&W coal train is just not feasible for me.

Also, even if you were good with the upfront cost, I have reservations about the weight of having  50 or more of these in a train along with the die-cast Atlas cars mixed in as well.   I have a couple examples of most versions for testing, but If I get to pick, I would prefer to have them all in a high quality plastic version.  

Big Jim posted:

christopher N&W posted:

Hi there,

I'd buy 3 each of Norfolk and Western K1 engines and/or Class A engines.

Can't afford but one, but, this one is at the top of my list.

I'd buy 2 each of Norfolk and Western Z1b engines and/or S1/S1a engines.

A couple of S1a's would be nice.

Several Z1b engines also went to Rio Grande, I do believe. It's just another legitimate name to put on them.

Sunset could easily do a better Class A than anything that is out there now. I'd think there would be an appetite for this iconic engine to be done well.

I'd like to see an original version.

 

 

Me too! I would LOVE  a Class A - probably would take more than 1.  I would also take any example of the K class. 

rtg posted:

I would like to see the SD18

Yeah, I'd like one of these too. I thought I could kitbash one starting with an SD9 body and a GP20 nose, but never could figure out how to put Alco tri-mount trucks under it.

Ken

Maybe start with an atlas RSD 4/5 chassis, an MTH SD9 body and a Lionel  GP 20 nose. If the body fits the chassis, there you're half the way there.