DCS & Legacy/TMCC Problems!!!

Paul; There is a limitation to the length of track that one channel of your TIU can control.  It's generally around 250' of track but that depends upon how your wiring is laid out.  Question:  are you using more than one channel of the TIU?  You know, there are three more channels, and each will control whatever trains are in each "block" even when one train goes from one section to another.  In order to do this you need to set the two "variable" channels to "fixed" so if you do run conventional trains on these tracks, you will need to use the transformer handles to regulate speed.

Your TMCC system, which can work right along with the DCS, does not have this length of track limitation.  One connection to ground is all that is needed to work any locomotive on any section of track.

Paul Fischer

Actually, if you configure the variable TIU channels to fixed outputs, just addressing them with the TR key and changing the voltage puts them back into variable mode, no need to lose the ability to control them from the remote.

Paul, Each of the two fixed outputs goes to one of the two original loops. The two new loops are where my problems lie. Neither of the two new loops have any DCS or Legacy/TMCC items wired to them. Each of the new two loops have a 180W brick wired to it via a ZW. What do I need to do to have either a DCS or Legacy/TMCC engine respond to the remote on these new loops? Can I take each new loop and attach it to one each of the fixed outputs from the TIU? Also, I will only be running Command Control engines on my layout, no conventional.

Paul:  As I understand it, these loops are not physically connected to the original track?  Should be no problem; simply wire the power from the ZW's, each  to one channel of the TIU and then to the separate track loops.   If there is a connection from one section of track to another, you should place a break in the "hot" rail to separate the sections.

Paul F.

Oh, and if you want the TMCC/Legacy to control both of the new sections of track (I hate the term; "loops".  It's so un-prototypical) simply extend a ground wire to each of the outer rails on the new sections.  On my layout, I have no section of track that is not also connected, both mechanically and electrically, to any other tracks.  Any train can operate on any area of the layout without physically lifting it off the track.

P. F.

If you're using a PW-ZW with the TIU, be SURE you have a 10A maximum circuit breaker (or fuse) between the ZW and the TIU!

Paul, Gunrunnerjohn, correct me if I am wrong. As I stated before, both these new sections are independent of any other section on the layout. The two original sections are also independent from each other. My TIU has two fixed channels and two variable channels. Each of the two fixed channels goes to one of the original sections. Can I take the two new sections and wire each one to a fixed channel? If so, would that also take care of Legacy/TMCC or would I need to do something else? The original two sections have TMCC/Legacy wired and working. If this is not feasible, can I use the two variable channels of my TIU and if so, what would I need to do in order to have both DCS and Legacy/TMCC working on the two new sections? BTW, my ZW was purchased new in the late 90's, it came with the ABCD unit and two 180W bricks. What is the designation, if any, of this ZW? I know the "L" is the latest one and I assume the PW are post-war but how much post?

You can supply up to four distinct power districts from one TIU, one on each channel.  If you use variable channels configured in fixed mode, you can run command or conventional on those two loops.

Your ZW-C is fine, however if you're running using the TIU, I'd recommend just using the bricks direct to the TIU.  You can control conventional stuff on the TIU variable channels directly from the DCS remote.

For TMCC/Legacy, all you need is all the outside tracks common, that solves the issue with TMCC. 

Gunrunnerjohn, please bear with me because I am not at all adept in electric/electronic stuff. Do I need to do anything to the TIU in order to use the variable channels? How do I wire the bricks directly to the TIU the bricks have those special plugs. What do you mean that I need all the outside tracks common for the TMCC? Please explain these items in basic terms, not elec. terms. Why didn't you recommend me using each one of the fixed for the new sections? Thank you very much!

Paul,  The Fixed channel pass power from the input directly out the output and they apply the DCS signal.  So they are ideal for Command Layouts that operate at constant voltage.

Lionel sells an adapter I believe, or you cut off the plus and you can wire it directly to the input.

Var channels allow conventional operations and control of track voltage regardless of the input voltage.  If you had 18V in to a Var you can lower it or even turn it off.

They can also be configured through the remote to act like Fix channels to make it easier if you are using them for Command Control.

John, Meant outside rails.  For TMCC Legacy the black common terminal goes to the outer rails.  If all the outer rails are tied together, than one TMCC/LEGACY base can provide the signal for all 4 tracks.  G 

GGG thank you very much. Your explanation was very easy to understand. Gunrunnerjohn I thank you also. You know your stuff unfortunately I don't always follow what you are talking about.

Hi everyone. I wired my ZW B/U post to the In #1 Variable on the TIU and the ZW C/U post to the In #2 Variable on the TIU. (A&D posts are sloppy) I then wired the Out #1 Variable on the TIU to the first new loop. I wired the Out #2 Variable on the TIU to the second new loop. Using my MTH remote I changed the variables to fixed per Barry's instructions. I took a wire and connected loop one outside rail to loop two outside rail. I took a wire and connected loop number two outside rail to loop number three outside rail. I took a wire and connected loop number three outside rail and connected it to loop number four outside rail. That took care of Legacy/TMCC. With the new loops 1 and 2, number one will be DCS and number two will be Legacy/TMCC. After messing with everything I found out that I needed to have my Z4000, which is connected to the TIU, turned on or else the two new loops wouldn't respond to the remote. The new  loop that is dedicated to DCS works fine. The other loop that will be assigned a Legacy/TMCC engine is not working remotely. Once I add power to the track the engine starts running. So after all this, two questions: First, as long as I need to have my Z4000 on so that the ZW powered loops can run, why can't I wire the two new loops from the Z4000 and eliminated the ZW? Second, why doesn't the new loop with Legacy/TMCC respond to my remote? 

OK, the reason the Z-4000 must be on is you are powering the TIU with the Fixed 1 Input.

You can power the TIU using the Aux Power in jack on the end with a Wall Wart of 12 to 18V AC at 1.5 Amps capacity. This will power the TIU and you can leave the Z-4000 off unless you want power on the original 2 loops.

Legacy / TMCC I'm not as good at.  Try running a wire from the loop outer track directly to the Base. You might have a bad connection or a broken wire somewhere.