How safe is running 270w on a temporary floor layout?

Just realized when I first built my layout I was under the impression 18 gauge was stronger than 12 so I bought 18. Do you guys think upgrading my main green/yellow wire than goes from my direct lock on to my MTH 50-1011 to 12g should help?

You could start a fire with a 40 watt power source using the connection methods you describe. Taping and touching does not mean good electrical contact. Poor connections may work for low current, but will create heat with larger amounts. Crimped connectors work if done properly and not constantly undone and reconnected. Wire nuts, screw terminals, solder, and wago fittings are all examples of good electrical connections. Just taping for contact is not. The larger wire is a good idea for higher current draw, but only if you have good electrical contact.

My first cross carpet country layout was not so long as yours, but large enough for allow for 20 car trains with a minimum of O-72 curves and a two-engine lash up. I used an MTH 400 watt transformer, MTH Realtrax, MTH lock-one for Realtrax, and 12 gauge wire. I had no problems. However, the carpeting might well have functioned as an insulators. Some or your bare wood floor might not do so. I certainly would recommend that you use the correct lock-ons for your track (that's Lionel's track, isn't it?). You might also put a piece of thin insulating material between the track and the floor. I also hope others with more experience and knowledge will chime in here in case I am not correct as to safety.

Was wondering if anyone has a link to the correct crimp ons for fastrack to use for 12g wire, the crimp ons I use from lowes are sometimes loose.

Sounds like you need the bigger transformer to power the trains you want to run. Shouldn't be a problem but I'd add a fast-acting circuit breaker at the transformer to shut power down if a derailment/ short occurs.
12 ga wire would be more than adequate, and get the proper crimps for fastrack. Not sure of the size off hand but search the forum for the info. The wire size range for the crimp is as important as the correct spade size.
Get a couple more of the MTH buss boards and spread them out across the layout. Better to have one main feeder and keep the connections to the track shorter. If you do this then you could use #12 for the main power and #14 or #16 to connect to the track. This also spreads the current draw across several feeders.
Electrical tape is only temporary and you'd be better protected with some insulating material between the terminals and carpet. The tape will fall off the underside of the track over time too.

Bob

Look through this thread.

Fastrack connectors are .110" female spade.

@Diego posted:

Was wondering if anyone has a link to the correct crimp ons for fastrack to use for 12g wire, the crimp ons I use from lowes are sometimes loose.

You need .110 female spade connectors for the FastTrack connections and you want the Yellow Insulated ones that are for 10 - 12 gauge wire. Fyi, Blue is for 14 - 16 gauge, and Red is for 18-22 gauge.  I would also recommend getting some crimp fork connectors and terminal strips, or buss bars, and use those for better wire connections, especially for your track power connections. You will probably need to go to an electrical supply business, that sell those crimp connectors in the right sizes, usually in packs of 100, in the long run, they'll be cheaper there  over the little packages that they sell in the big box stores if you could find the right ones at all especially the .110 female spade connectors in 12 gauge. The two Lowes within 20 miles of me only sell the regular size .250 female spade connectors that are way too big for Fastrack connections.

16 gauge two conductor wire is readily available and inexpensive since that's the standard size for extension cords.  It's adequate for reasonable loads, up to 5 or 6 amps and a 15' feeder.

Your load is going to depend on the motors you are using.  Two horizontal motor Lionel F3 diesels (4 motors) will draw more current than 3 or 4 can motored diesels.

My budget is pretty low, but I am working on a small change, I am upgrading the wire that goes from my TMCC direct lock on from 18 to 12 gauge, I was wondering if you guys think it’ll make a big difference. The 6-7 drops will most likely stay at 18 until I am able to get more wire. Do you guys think the 2 12 gauge wires will make a big difference?

Thanks everyone for the help. I was able to get my 52 car long intermodal train goin by adding those two 12 gauge wires. Here’s a video!

https://youtu.be/WEYKvLCOoG4?feature=shared

Also consider crimpers that also put  a dimple in the connector such as these:

https://www.kleintools.com/cat...mper-cutter-stripper

The crimpers that just squeeze them closed, make a connection that is more susceptible to the heating and cooling due to current draw loosening the crimp, which is really a concern in our low AC voltage, high current applications.    Never crimp solid wire, unless you then solder the connection.

@Diego posted:

My budget is pretty low, but I am working on a small change, I am upgrading the wire that goes from my TMCC direct lock on from 18 to 12 gauge, I was wondering if you guys think it’ll make a big difference. The 6-7 drops will most likely stay at 18 until I am able to get more wire. Do you guys think the 2 12 gauge wires will make a big difference?

It is never a good idea to use 18 gauge wire to the track at the level you are trying to run.  I assume you unplug everything from power when you are not running.

@Bill DeBrooke posted:

It is never a good idea to use 18 gauge wire to the track at the level you are trying to run.  I assume you unplug everything from power when you are not running.

Do you think I should make the drops 16? I think I should be able to do 16. The holes in my floor are large enough for that.

@Diego posted:

Hey everyone I was wondering how safe it would be to run 270w of power on my loop instead of 180. I was considering using a TCP 400 & 2 180w powerhouses my main issue is fires, or damaging my trains. Looking for advice from yall. My layout used TMCC I like to run very long heavy consists. These consists will probably need 6 diesels which I’m struggling to do because I think I don’t have enough power. My layout is pretty temporary it’s on carpet & the wiring is not soldered to tracks mostly using crimp ons, electrical tape, wrapping the wire around the track part, or just taping the exposed wire in a way where it makes contact with it. I’ve ran a layout like this for about a year but I’m hesitant about doing 270w due to concern of fires or damage to trains. Also I saw a mention of track/wheel welding during derailments. Does anyone know if this is true? Looking for advice/tips on how to deal with this issue and if it’s even safe to due on my type of layout.

First off, I think you've jumbled a lot of inconsistent factors together, and need to be clear what *actually* fits together.

Transformer power ratings, such as 270 watt or 180 watt, are just a measure of the maximum rated power that can be drawn from the transformer before encountering overheating and/or circuit breaker problems. Regardless of the transformer rating, IMHO there should at minimum be an external and fast acting circuit breaker between any transformer and the track, both to protect the transformer and the source of the short or overload (you can literally melt the contacts off rolling stock or vaporize the wire to the track -- don't ask how I know!). Don't rely on the transformer's built-in circuit breaker -- it's designed *only* to protect the transformer, not your track, layout or rolling stock!

As others have already commented, secure electrical connections to the track, and between track sections, are absolutely necessary, both to provide reliable and consistent power to the consist *and* to avoid creating hot spots at the poor connections. IMHO 18 gauge wire should be adequate for most consists, especially if you provide multiple connections to the track, spaced at regular intervals, and I personally don't think switching to 12 gauge will provide any significant improvement, especially if some of your other electrical connections are less than secure. 

@Steve Tyler posted:

First off, I think you've jumbled a lot of inconsistent factors together, and need to be clear what *actually* fits together.

Transformer power ratings, such as 270 watt or 180 watt, are just a measure of the maximum rated power that can be drawn from the transformer before encountering overheating and/or circuit breaker problems. Regardless of the transformer rating, IMHO there should at minimum be an external and fast acting circuit breaker between any transformer and the track, both to protect the transformer and the source of the short or overload (you can literally melt the contacts off rolling stock or vaporize the wire to the track -- don't ask how I know!). Don't rely on the transformer's built-in circuit breaker -- it's designed *only* to protect the transformer, not your track, layout or rolling stock!

As others have already commented, secure electrical connections to the track, and between track sections, are absolutely necessary, both to provide reliable and consistent power to the consist *and* to avoid creating hot spots at the poor connections. IMHO 18 gauge wire should be adequate for most consists, especially if you provide multiple connections to the track, spaced at regular intervals, and I personally don't think switching to 12 gauge will provide any significant improvement, especially if some of your other electrical connections are less than secure.

I have a question about the circuit breaker between the track and my powerhouse. I was under the impression that the Direct Lockon was a fast acting circuit breaker. Do you know if this is true or no? Also I’m working on installing crimp ons onto all my drops. With my crimp ons what I do is squeeze it super hard around wire and in addition wrap electrical tape around the crimp on/wire so it cannot slip off.

@Steve Tyler posted:

First off, I think you've jumbled a lot of inconsistent factors together, and need to be clear what *actually* fits together.

Transformer power ratings, such as 270 watt or 180 watt, are just a measure of the maximum rated power that can be drawn from the transformer before encountering overheating and/or circuit breaker problems. Regardless of the transformer rating, IMHO there should at minimum be an external and fast acting circuit breaker between any transformer and the track, both to protect the transformer and the source of the short or overload (you can literally melt the contacts off rolling stock or vaporize the wire to the track -- don't ask how I know!). Don't rely on the transformer's built-in circuit breaker -- it's designed *only* to protect the transformer, not your track, layout or rolling stock!

As others have already commented, secure electrical connections to the track, and between track sections, are absolutely necessary, both to provide reliable and consistent power to the consist *and* to avoid creating hot spots at the poor connections. IMHO 18 gauge wire should be adequate for most consists, especially if you provide multiple connections to the track, spaced at regular intervals, and I personally don't think switching to 12 gauge will provide any significant improvement, especially if some of your other electrical connections are less than secure.

Also was wondering if this is a good way to splice what I do is twirl the wire together very tightly and wrap electrical tape around it tightly to ensure it doesn’t get un done.

I would prefer something more mechanically secure such as the screw on wire connectors,  or suitcase type connectors.  As mentioned, tape will eventually loosen.

Ok. Throw away your tape.....it's not a mechanical connection. You hadn't mentioned that the splices were below the floor previously.

Get some quality wire nuts for the splices. That will be all you need...no tape.

For the crimps, pick up a crimping tool. HD and Lowes, etc sell small kits in the electrical depts.

There are a lot of videos on wire splicing, but the old electricians splice is one of the best.   I would describe it like the old Indian hold of one guy grabbing the fore arm of the other and vice versa, the electricians splice wraps one wire around the straight bare length of the other and again vice versa.  Fine for a few high current wires going from here to there, Then tape or shrink wrap, but tape always lets loose and gums everything up.  Electrical tape was supposed to be put over the rubber tape insulation you put on first, for weather protection, not really as the only covering.  Only place you ever see that now, is in very old homes, and I have owned 3 of those.

@Diego posted:

I have a question about the circuit breaker between the track and my powerhouse. I was under the impression that the Direct Lockon was a fast acting circuit breaker. Do you know if this is true or no? Also I’m working on installing crimp ons onto all my drops. With my crimp ons what I do is squeeze it super hard around wire and in addition wrap electrical tape around the crimp on/wire so it cannot slip off.

I've never used one (I run old-school conventional on tubular track, so to me a "lock on" is a simple mechanical connection to the track with fahnstock clips!), but it does appear Lionel offers a "Direct Lockon" for tmcc setups, and I'll let someone else comment on what it does!

If you are going to use crimp connectors, I recommend the butt type that have their own insulation, so no need to add tape unless you're going belt-and-suspenders:

@Diego posted:

Also was wondering if this is a good way to splice what I do is twirl the wire together very tightly and wrap electrical tape around it tightly to ensure it doesn’t get un done.

That looks pretty shaky to me. What can be twisted together can just as easily be pulled apart, tape or no, so I think I'd either solder the joint together, or use a suitcase connector to tap into a bus wire:

At times this thread borders on parody... twist joints and wrap in tape? Really?  Solder the joints, it's quick and easy. And permanent. I use liquid tape: brush it on, it's neat and compact, and the next day the joint is fully insulated.

Soldering wires is the easiest soldering. Solder and then heat shrink your splices. You tube has many videos that can help you