Adventures in TMCC & Legacy... Trying to master the 455Khz track signal. I've built the test car, and it is finally working..

If you take it apart, leave it upside down and you won't have to fiddle with the stuff that falls out. But put some sticky tape on the little button on the bottom so it won't fall into the works. I think the post is a double nut, first tighten the post to the case and then tighten the nut to hold the ring for conduction. 

So far the warranty for the Legacy base and Cab2 seems to be lifetime but you need your invoice copy and you have to send the base and Cab2 in together. Since your base is 3 years old, there is an update for the charging circuit that needs to be done as well.

Chuck, that being the case, with charger update, maybe it's just better to let them do everything. An invoice may be hard to come by, I picked it up NEW off the bay. However, I believe I registered it. So if I did, they should have it on record.

While they're at it, will they load the latest software? If not, I'm planning on moving my computer to the center of the room next to the bases, so I can plug in the bases and the C/MRI. I can load it.

I don't know if they will update the software...maybe if you include the request in your warranty communications...and put a note taped to the unit outlining what the problem and request an update.

Elliot,

My Legacy base is a Cab 1L. One of the features is the ability to adjust the signal operating frequency in case there is a competing signal in the area like WiFi. From your Dale-o-meter measurements it sounds like a defect but I was wondering if something like frequency adjustment is part of your Legacy base.

S

Scott, the frequency adjustment you speak of has nothing to do with the track signal.  The TMCC/Legacy track signal frequency is fixed at 455khz, and it not changeable.  The frequency adjustment for Legacy or the BASE1L is for the remote to base communications, that happens in the 2.4ghz frequency band.

I had the Legacy Base signal output lug nut come loose on the inside of the base.  Of course it happened near the beginning of a club meet.  My engines on a storage track in the back room took off like mad.  Took me a few minuets to figure out what was going on.  Took the bottom off the base and tightened it up adding a lock washer.  Never a problem before and not a problem since.  Easy fix but under heavy duress. 

Dan

That's encouraging to hear Dan. Since the charger issue isn't a real priority for me, and I forgot to contact Lionel today, maybe this is something I can do myself and not send it in. I'm sure I have the right lock washer in my mini hardware store. I was sort of dreading sending it anyway.

How about a home made Signal tester? Something like a coffee table about 4 feet long,2 feet wide, Maybe a foot or so high with a  wire zig- zagged on the bottom with a wire lead and an  alligator clip   to clip on the earth ground.  . Something really light that you could move around very easily and clip on to the wall outlet's earth ground.  . Nothing fancy perhaps even  made from a card board box.

Just place it over the engine  instead of your hand.  

Well, the real "signal tester" has been made, it's an R2LC with a meter on the unused signal strength pin of the receiver.  Here's one rendition of such a car, I think this is the one that the NJ-HR guys use.

Question...What the difference between the Legacy base and TMCC base track wise?  (not remote to base ) Same type of signal? 

GRJ, measuring the AC voltage form the signal pin will give you your signal strength? What would a strong signal be?

Yeah John, I need one of those too. I've even got a donor board in mind. I have that discussion marked so I can go back to it. Pin 13 converts the signal strength to voltage, then read the meter?

Let's see if I can get this base fixed today, put that thing to rest once and for all.

Finally, this has been a fantastic discussion of TMCC and Legacy. I know I've learned a lot, and dispelled a few myths along the way with all the tests. As I've said repeatedly, the upper deck signal isn't a problem. The lower deck signal used to be better, but now it is spotty. So, what changed? Answer, the chicken wire or maybe just the whole upper deck in general.

We are dealing with AM radio here, and we all know what happens when we go under a bridge or into a tunnel in our car. Even though the the chicken wire is connected to earth ground, it is not enhancing the signal, it is killing it in spots, and most of those spots are fairly deep under the upper deck. I'm just going to have to reintroduce the signal in the form of some ground plane wires.

Thoughts on my latest theory? Let me hear 'em guys!

Matt Makens posted:

GRJ, measuring the AC voltage form the signal pin will give you your signal strength? What would a strong signal be?

I think its value comes as more of a comparison tool, testing levels of bad locations against those of known good ones. Absolute values probably depend on your base's output and can vary.

I am far from being an expert on this. One thought, How about contacting someone at NJ High Railers or another big 3 rail club maybe out your neck of the woods?  Someone must have a solution for a large layout and signal issues.

Well, Ive said it before, if I was building a layout that large 3 rail or not, I would have used DCC. It is proven to run layouts that large.

George, there are no 3 rail clubs in this area. I'm aware of the NJ club and their successes in this arena and have the contact info for them. The solutions are definitely out there, it's really more a matter of choosing the right ones and implementing them. Deep down, I'm not worried. I'm confident that I can make this work. I will succeed where Tommy Z could not and switched to DCS as a result. Not an option!

Matt Makens posted:

Well, Ive said it before, if I was building a layout that large 3 rail or not, I would have used DCC. It is proven to run layouts that large.

Convert all those engines? You've got to be kidding. I've come too far to turn back now. Maybe on my next layout. Or better yet on yours.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Matt Makens posted:

Well, Ive said it before, if I was building a layout that large 3 rail or not, I would have used DCC. It is proven to run layouts that large.

Convert all those engines? You've got to be kidding. I've come too far to turn back now. Maybe on my next layout. Or better yet on yours.

DCC is great but that would be insane if you have 50-100 engines+ to convert. DCS might be the way to go. Also how about contacting Mike Reagan at Lionel or a tech guy at Lionel, USA.

The car comes from the NJ-HR club, and they used it to sort out their signal issues.  I recall them saying when the signal was in the 40's, everything was great.  When the signal dropped down past about 30 and lower, the wheels started to fall off.  Bob De Guarde or Chris Lord at the NJ-HR are the folks to talk to, they were intimately involved in sorting out the signal issues there.

No George, DCS is a non-starter in my world. Again, it would mean convert the fleet, but beyond that, it doesn't do what I want to do. I have always hated its proprietary system since it was first introduced, and swore never to buy it. In spite of how nice MTH engines look, unless I can get them cheaply enough and convert them, you won't find them in my world.

To do what I want to do, I NEED THE CODES to run the trains. TMCC has always been open, and now Legacy is too. JMRI has the TMCC codes already incorporated into it, just like the DCC codes. I'm not sure if they've gotten Legacy in, but for what I'm doing simple speed control is the only function I need. My end goal is to have the computer be able to run mainline trains in a live action simulation. Nothing pre-programmed, just reacting to signals as if a human was controlling the train.

When it comes to talking directly to Lionel about my signal issues, the NJ club has already done that legwork. Chris Lord has graciously shared their findings here on the forum. I have read that material a few times, and again have the topic marked so I can go back to it. You won't find me participating in a wide range of topics here, but if it has to do with TMCC signal, I'm all over it, even if I'm just listening.