Lionel Out of Warranty Repairs

Mike Reagan

David Minarik posted:

Mike Reagan

 I'll second that. You can contact Mike here: mreagan@twtrainworx.com

the main repair person passed away and lionel has gotten to much warranty work to take on any out of warranty work.

if on the west coast we use the train shack but it take 6 to 8 weeks.

we would use mike Reagan but shipping would kill us.

I also have a TMCC crane car I bought looks new but crane functions don't work at all. I have a new motor driver board on order from Lionel. What is wrong with yours?

I would guess the receiver board.

This is a claim ticket from where I go, in person or by mail. You can find more information about them up in the OGR Forum Ad Banner.

Hope this helps: Gary

I'm glad I saw this post. I was thinking of sending my ZW-C to Mike for repair, but I have a feeling he's going to be very busy. I have a friend here who is a independent Lionel repair tech and he is backed up on repairs of out of warranty work.

I sent my 990 handheld in a two weeks ago for out of warranty repair.  They told me 4 weeks for out of warranty repair work.  They received it 3/15/18, so I have about 2 weeks left.  Hate being without it, but wanted to repair the cracked number board screen.  I received an email this morning saying it would take another 2 weeks.

So Lionel is taking them unless something has changed in the last 2 weeks...Now it took a while to actually get the RMA # though in email.  I probably would have been better served just calling.

The 990s are still under warranty. Lionel has always repaired these beyond the 1 year as a warranty repair unless they feel the item was abused.

MartyE posted:

The 990s are still under warranty. Lionel has always repaired these beyond the 1 year as a warranty repair unless they feel the item was abused.

Mins was not because I bought it used and the person I bought it from did not have the original receipt...so mine qualified as out of warranty.

About repair service for Lionel out-of-warranty products ...
During the ECON 101 college course, we learned about SUPPLY AND DEMAND as one of the main drivers of a national economy. Since there's a pent-up DEMAND for repair service for Lionel trains, any day now we should expect to see a surge in the SUPPLY of independent Lionel-certified repair technicians.

Unfortunately, some long-standing authorized LIONEL SERVICE CENTERS have recently closed because seasoned veterans in the biz have retired. However, Technician Mike Reagan is already part of the re-balancing act, and he actively offers repair service based on his long-time immersion in Lionel technology. Some Service Centers remain. I've been pleased with the work of the team at Brasseur's in Michigan.

Shipping costs to/from a repair shop are modest if/when you specify "slowest, cheapest" method of delivery.  Few (if any) hobbyists have a repair task that requires delivery with expensive next-day air service.

Mike M.  (ritrainguy)

One issue with new Lionel-certified repair technicians showing up is the fact that Lionel is not certifying any new technicians!  They haven't had their classes in years!

Guns,

   Roger that.

PCRR/Dave

Chuck Sartor posted:

I would guess the receiver board.

If your electro couplers/out riggers fire but no crane functions, it's the motor driver board most likely. If you don't have any functions it's probably the rx board.

John,  it will happen down the road.   The best part of being a certified tech is full access to the Lionel tech site and the discount on parts.    That would be the only reason you would need to be certified.  Your working knowledge of the products is miles ahead of most people.   I read everything you post.   

Marty, that's a primary reason I would like to be certified.   I'm just afraid I'll die of old age before it happens!

On the one hand, I am honesty surprised that Lionel hasn't been totally scrambling to set up classes to certify more repair techs and establish additional authorized service stations. They are swamped with repair work resulting from QC, engineering and production issues. Sloughing off this work to service stations would likely be beneficial to Lionel. Service station labor is cheaper, and they avoid shipping costs.

On the other hand, I think Lionel has found an even cheaper way to handle the majority of their warranty repairs: Slough it off on their Value Added Dealers, whose qualified but unrecognized repair techs, like myself, repair large numbers of new defective merchadise without reimbursement, to please a dealer's customers. Lionel is fortunate for these folks as it allows them to avoid seeing the true scale and volume of repair work generated by their various "issues". In that context, what motive would they have to establish more service stations, if it means having to start paying for something current being received for free?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

One issue with new Lionel-certified repair technicians showing up is the fact that Lionel is not certifying any new technicians!  They haven't had their classes in years!

When you really think about this, this is rather scary! Lionel continues to build new items with more complex electronics and mechanical workings but is not training anyone on how to repair them. Is this a trend moving to the "throw it away instead of repairing it" after the warranty expires?

I'm not sure that MTH has held a class lately either, or am I mistaken.

H1000, MTH has classes often.  I have been to six of them over the years.  As for Lionel, I attended and got certified from the last class given by Mike Reagan.  Gregr, I do agree many good non certified tech guys exist.  Others that are not that good also exist.  The number one thing for tech guys is they have access to the Lionel Tech site.  Most of the people who want a new train worked on usually send it to a shop with a certified tech.   I do work for a store that may sell more trains than any other in the country.   In my opinion, Lionel has been building a better product in recent years.  The RCMC board system gets very high marks in my book.   I am thankful  the days of the modular boards is getting  behind us.   I feel both MTH and Lionel have done great work in recent years and products keep getting better.   Lionel has Dean Brasseur as the head of customer service.    Dean is top shelf with many years of knowledge.  MTH now has Jason Wenzel in charge of Customer service and is getting things organized very well.  Both men have been with MTH and Lionel for many years.

The bigger problem with this is the variations in Lionel product.  Good tech and hobbyist can do a pretty good job, but there are quirks that come up and unless you are a trained tech with access to the information more an more things become harder to diagnose.  Also every Lionel model seems to be a snow flake and no one can carry the parts necessary to swap in and out especially with no discount, to figure out witch component is bad.  Different version boards, different software only Lionel can load, plus in many case Lionel requires you to turn in the old board before they send a replacement.  Leading to long delay times waiting on parts.  It is why I limit my Lionel repairs, and my customers have conversation about it before I will except a repair.  TMCC easy.  Legacy not so much, though the new board helps.

MTH, I stock almost every part necessary to get an engine back up and running without having to order parts for the specific job.  MTH common parts approach makes this far more possible.

I still think their policy is bad business.  A product a few months out of warranty and your stuck trying to find someone to fix it? G

George, I am with you on loading the boards.  I deal with many parts from Lionel and have nothing but good things to say on parts shipping.  

Marty, You are special!  In many ways.  Unfortunately, other technicians do not have your clout.  I just think this is poor business on there part.  But it is their business to run.  The reality is that there is so much variation in the product, they do not have the training material.  Guys on here put wiring diagrams and board pin outs together, because Lionel does not seem to have that information.  The last know tech updates are almost the old modular Legacy stuff.  G

Personally, I'd send stuff to Mike Reagan.  The suggestion of Brasseur's seems like a very sound choice  too.  There are probably other long time Lionel dealerships that have an experienced repair person or persons.  I don't know who those might be.  Ask around at the bigger dealerships, whose ads are above or in the magazines. 

The dynamics of repairs may be quite problematic for these companies. Neither Lionel nor anyone else has the luxury of sparing their existing repair crew to train others in any numbers.  In my work, when we train someone, it takes many people part-time about 4-6 months of time away from their daily work to train new people, and we have 40 staff.  A lot more than the entire MTH and Lionel repair teams put together x 5.  It's a burden for sure, but necessary.  As long as we can get the work done, we continue to commit to training new folks.  There's no option.

Right now, until he is overwhelmed, Mike Reagan knows more about repairing Lionel products than anyone in the galaxy.  I gather he's pretty knowledgeable about other manufacturer's products too, given that he was once a dealer/repair facility owner, and sold Lionel, MTH, etc.  

"in many ways"   Thanks George.  Not so on the last updates.  Information is available.  You know a guy who knows a guy.

Landsteiner,  my name is Fitzhenry.  What work do you train people for?   You sound like a person who knows what is needed to train tech people.   Not many train stores have a full time repair person.  I am a retired person who has always been involved with repairs.   I have been fortunate to have met Mike Wolf many years before he became MTH.  I have known Charles Ro for over 46 years.  I buy trains and have a large layout.  Over the years I have done beta work for MTH and some testing for Lionel.   Many people get upset with me because I will not take in work from the Forum.  I have received many nasty emails.  The OGR Forum has many good tech guys who advertise and you should always give them the nod.  I am up to my ears with repairs from Charles Ro.  

Over the years, Charlie Ro has always supported me by sending me to school.  I graduated from the last Lionel school and have been to six MTH schools.  Charlie Ro sells a few trains and supports what he sells.  Lionel or MTH.  I have had just about everything thrown at me to repair.  Did I forget to mention  Lionchief and Lionchief Plus.   I have always had permission from Lionel, MTH, and Charlie to share any information that can help a fellow forum member.  My email is in my profile and any forum member is always welcome to contact me if I can help him/her.   I have always considered the OGR Forum as the best place to get good information.

I have a few members that I follow every post they make.  Guys like George G,  John W, Barry B, and Alex M.    Many other great members are on my list.  I have a monster library of tech manuals from MTH and Lionel and have shared information with many members.  

Let me say that both Lionel and MTH are working very hard to make everyone happy and make things happen.  Many members here like to give them a bad rap on repairs.  Most of these folks have no idea what the inner workings of Lionel and MTH are all about.   I have to bite my tongue often and many times get abrasive with people posting bad or false info when someone is in need of help.  Any Forum member in need of help can usually get lucky if they read the right guy posting help information.  It will only take a member a short time to know who to listen to and who to not listen to.

I feel we are all living in the greatest time ever in the hobby.  Enjoy and have fun.

Marty,

the name is Fitzhenry

Welcome to my club. My name, according to some on the OGR Forum, is "Berry".

Barry, I have heard you called other things.  I am joking.  No problem spelling my name wrong as it is not a common name like Fitzgerald.   As long as my pension check is spelled correctly each month, I am happy.

"Landsteiner,  my name is Fitzhenry.  What work do you train people for? "

Yes, your name is well known to us all. My apologies.  Darn autocorrect/autofinish that I didn't catch on proofreading .  

Try not to discuss my professional work here, but it is in a highly regulated technical field where a single error can cost someone dearly.  

Landsteiner, Doing one field, an opining about another is ridiculous.  Sure, you can have some insight, but it you really want to know how a process works, you need to do it, not supervise it.  This has nothing to do with competition, there is plenty of work to go around, and many techs on this forum push stuff to other techs depending on work load.  Again, you stir a pot when your not even competent to be in the kitchen.

I still believe you can not advance the tech at the rate it has been advanced and not support repairs after the warranty period or not train independent techs.

Mike cancelled many techs certification based on the fact they were out of date, but never fulfilled the plan to build a course and get the cert program back on track.

Sure, smart people can reverse engineer to a degree, and gain insight primarily by sharing info on a public sight like this.

But in the end, you can chase Lionel problems for many hours, almost fully disassembling a engine and its complicated wiring harness, only to found out later the new part received was defective and so was the batch.  Or spend half a day doing a repair that really is only a 2 hr job.  That is uncompensated time, because customers should not have to be billed that way.

The MTH architecture is common and more simple.  Plus as an ASC, if I ask about a symptom I see for the first time, I can get a tech answer in 1-2 days. Not only that MTH has kept their tech document up to date and continues to shoot out tech updates on new issues found, etc... I rarely have to order a part from MTH for a repair.  I can stock all the necessary boards and parts to repair 90% of what I see.  I only order parts when I hit a low inventory on an item.

Since the advent of LC and Legacy, almost every Lionel repair requires a parts order from Lionel, and in many cases you have to get an RA, send back the old part before you get the new part.  This is far more complicated then going on line an ordering as usual.  I can't stock every Lionel smoke unit type, or motor driver, nor can I load the required software for LC or Legacy. 

My opinion is that it is not a good business practice, but you can defend it.  It is what it is.  So I just screen the issues with customers that ask me to do Lionel repairs.  So they have some insight what it may cost, and how long it takes. G

George, couldn't have said it better myself.   From what I see, there was no useful content in Landsteiner's post, and it was indeed only intended to offend.

This post is about Lionel out of warranty service.   I gave the original poster some hopefully useful advice on what to do with his problem.  I also provided some insight into the problems of providing training with limited personnel, something I have a ton of experience with.

Some people's basic advice is "Lionel, be more like MTH."  I find that point of view not terribly useful.

Since I seem to have gotten people's knickers in a twist, I have removed the likely most offensive portion of my previous post, and focused on the practical issues.

It seems likely that consumers with Lionel out of warranty needs will send their repairs to folks with access to Lionel information and parts and confidence in their experience.  My Lionel repairs, if I need them, will go to Mike Reagan or someone similar.  It's not rocket science, and several people, including a well known MTH dealer, have written the same advice.

Ok...for all the people complaining about needing an RA to send back PCB's to Lionel, there are a few changes for non-warranty repairs:

GregR posted:

Ok...for all the people complaining about needing an RA to send back PCB's to Lionel, there are a few changes for non-warranty repairs:

 

Policy Change for PCBs

03/01/2018

We are going to change our policy for having customers send in boards for testing.

For out of warranty boards the customer or service station can purchase the board outright. We no longer require any to come in for testing before we sell them the board.  

 This includes the following boards

Any conventional boards

Any TMCC boards

Older Legacy pre RCMC boards

Lionchief R/F boards and remotes

Lionchief Blutooth boards and remotes

Current Legacy boards – RCMC, RCMD, RSL, BEMC

 We will still allocate the customer to only one board at a time. Customers can still send an out of warranty board in for testing per their request only. $20.00 Testing fee waived if board tests bad and new board is  purchased.

For under warranty boards The policy remains the same. Service stations are required to send in the defective board before a new board will be sent out. Non service station customers should not be having under warranty boards come in. They should be sending their product to Lionel Customer Service or an Authorized Service Station for repair.

 Contact Lionel still means call in to order.

PCBs are thoroughly tested and specially marked, any PCBs returned without the original mark will be sent back to the sender without replacement or refund.

Note We do not have complete remotes for all 2017 Lionchief products. But we do have remote PCB’s. So we can repair the remotes themselves. In the event a customer lost their remote and wants to buy one. They can buy the PCB and we can put the board into a different remote casing. The remote will work for their product, just will not be cosmetically accurate.

Any questions about any of this please ask.

Thank you

 

 

 

who are you and how did you get this?

just wondering so we know it is legit.

It is Legit.