Yep Will, all my previous KTM models had the boiler attached by the screw through the stack.  I did think about trying to unscrew or pop off the nozzle in the smoke box, but I just haven't had the courage to try that yet. I don't think the smoke box interior comes out, but I'll check that. Looking all around (top, bottom and sides) there are no visible screw heads........period.

Jay, this model was totally rebuilt by Peter Bassett and only the bones are still KTM and those are highly modified. Pony truck, trailing truck and all drivers are now equalized and sprung. Both the pony and trailing truck were hand made to match the prototype they attach much differently now than stock KTM trucks. The internal threaded screw in photo 4 attaches the trailing truck to lever that is tied to the equalized suspension of the drivers. This system is similar to the KTM/USA FEF-3 or the Sofue models I have. But, they don't have any hidden screws. 




2-10-2 trailing truck 0022-10-2 trailing truck 0032-10-2 trailing truck 0062-10-2 trailing truck 0112-10-2 trailing truck 021 differently than


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Interesting, I've only owned about 100 O Scale models made by KTM and worked on probably just as many, none of them had a screw going down through the stack.  I did have a first run MG SP 4-8-2 that had two screws going through the frame into posts soldered to the bottom of the boiler.

Obviously, articulated were a little different.


Sorry Butch, the junker I have won't be much help.  It's an "early TTT version" and completely stock.

Jay is absolutely right about the screw on the bottom.  Must be the way they were made. All the others I've had were significantly modified.



Does the whole boiler shift forward a bit like a hooked hinge in front that locks in place with the screws by the cab and firebox? Quite a puzzle.


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No Witt, taking the back tail beam screws out really did nothing or maybe allowed 1/6th" movement.

Jay, you're right!   I looked at a stock USH FEF-3 and it is held from the bottom not through the stack. I'm pretty sure I've looked everywhere above the pony truck and found no screws, but once I get done with the sand hatches I'll go back the TTT.


I'm getting close to being done with sand hatches for my KOH's 9000, so I'll bring the TTT in off the rip track soon. Bought this 9000 from an estate liquidator with some fairly minor poor handling damage and missing sand dome hatches. The seller was not train savvy and refused to look around for the missing hatches and had sold several other models from this collection, so the hatches might have gone with one of them.  I bought it right and figured if I couldn't buy replacement new hatches from the builder I'd make some...........turns out I had to make them. Not perfect, but with a little more sanding they will be close enough. Had to reshaped them a little, thin them down, taper the edges and add grab handles.  

But, since I'm going to gut the electronics and add modern DCC, I didn't figure making my own hatches would spoil the pedigree of the model. I think it will be a great model when finished, as it was a great model to start with, just dated electronics and a few builder mistakes, that need correcting. 

1st two photos are stock PSC BB and Challenger hatches that fit the opening in the KOHs dome like a glove.  Last photo is of the modified hatches with grabs. 




PSC Sand Hatch [2)PSC Sand Hatch [1)Modifed PSC Sand Hatches 001


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3rd Rail Alco PA and PB.  

Union Pacific 604A and 604B

Outfitted in 1955 appearance.  Dual headlights, silver trucks, but before aftercooler piping on the roofs.  All three of those details were changed on the PAs in 1955.

The models are beautiful.  The PA sounds and runs great.....


The PB....not so much. DOA. 

(Maybe from shipping?  I know they test their products thoroughly.  It just sat there and buzzed. The fan screen was popped off the roof fan).

I  emailed Scott since I bought it direct.  Immediate response. He's already sent me a UPS label.  I'll be shipping it out to him to correct the issues.  Honestly,  I don't know how the other guys stay in business.  They can't compete with 3rd Rail's service or commitment to their products.



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3rd Rail Alco PA

One Pacific, Two Pacific

Me Pacific, Union Pacific!


If there's one thing I've learned the deeper I get into 2-Rail it's that OMI/Ajin locomotives are beautiful, but gee whiz are they finicky runners!

With a little work #3225 runs nice and smooth, but I still can't get #2897 to budge.  Keeps shorting out somewhere on the front wheel truck.  Just add it to the list if things to I need get to fixing!

KTM on the other hand, while not as delicately detailed, just need a quick clean.  Oil 'em up, throw them on the track and they run like a sewing machine!



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OMI 4-6-2

Got my Alco PB unit back from 3rd Rail today.  I have to say fantastic service and commitment to their products.

Tested and runs fine.  I'm really glad Scott chose to do the B units independently powered with sound, smoke, and lights.  This is definitely the way to go for all future diesel units.

Once I have the time to paint the trucks 1948-1955 gray they'll be off and running just like the prototypes did across the UP's Kansas division.



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Cleaning up some files from a few years ago.....found a few pics I like.




"If two rails are good, than three rails has got to be better."


"Give a person a toy train and watch them play for a day. Teach a person to fill their basement with trains and give them a lifetime hobby."


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3rd Rail Brass O Scale Harriman 72' Diner

Picked this up earlier in the year.  As one would expect from 3rd Rail, quality 2R O Scale Brass build and beautiful detail.  A few of the window panes came loose from shipping.  I will fix them soon.  

3rd Rail Harriman 72' Diner.3rd Rail Harriman 72' Diner.a3rd Rail Harriman 72' Diner.b3rd Rail Harriman 72' Diner.d3rd Rail Harriman 72' Diner.e3rd Rail Harriman 72' Diner.f3rd Rail Harriman 72' Diner.g

3rd Rail Harriman 72' Diner.c


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Well, resurrecting an old thread, I had some time yesterday to look at my 2-10-2 again and absolutely concluded the screw holding the boiler to the chassis had to be hidden under the 4 port annular nozzle that was installed in the bottom of the smokebox.  It lined up with the stack so if the nozzle was removed you could reach down through the stack and remove the screw.

I've tried in the past to remove this nozzle to no avail. Finally, yesterday I decided "the h*ll with this" and used what I considered to be excessive force and low and behold I was able to remove the nozzle and attached 1/2" brass tube from the slightly larger nozzle base and the elusive screw was revealed within.  

So now I will start rebuilding and refurbishing this model and update the wiring and electronics that weren't available in the 80's when it was built. 



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Since it has owner built (1980's) battery constant lighting that must have been put in before either the backhead or firebox was detailed, I sent the boiler out to Gary Schrader to remove these 7" long brass tubes and "AA" batteries along with the 7" long solid brass rod boiler weights as Peter had soldered it all together. 

Getting ready to strip paint off the paint off the chassis, but here are some photos of his custom drive. Everything is over the top and fabricated, but it worked as he designed it. Just an incredible amount of work to get his results.

2-10-2 electrical 0022-10-2 electrical 0232-10-2 Drive 008

2-10-2 Drive 001


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Great post Butch. Pretty amazing work by Bassett.  Makes me wonder if this was it or if there is another piece of Peter's art out there somewhere.

Given your photos and detailed descriptions, I believe you have the makings of a fine article for Ogaugerr someday.

This is a stunning thread.  It has obviously degenerated into fine scale, and even further degenerated into 2-rail.  I went through all 13 pages yesterday and today - it kinda deserves to be in a more widely scanned forum, or maybe two!

Later, I will again present some of my UP doorstops.  I am just a few pipes and steps (and maybe an injector or cold water pump here and there) away from owning a UP-3  class 4-12-2, and as soon as I am home when the sun is at the right angle, I shall get a portrait for here, and for MTJ.

I am seriously impressed with what you guys have done, both with your models and with this thread.

On the rivet press - I think I have the best rivet press this side of Korea.  Push me a bit and I will again share details.

Here are a couple contributions from the doorstop contingent.  Remember, I know and respect those who need absolute prototype fidelity to the Nth degree - but for me it is just a model.

The story on the Big Boy:  my friend Bud (now long gone) came by with a box of Lobaugh Challenger parts - I was able to make one Challenger and one Big Boy out of the parts, and still have a few spare parts left over.  The Big Boy and Challenger share a boiler and smokebox, and a lot of other things like drivers, cylinders, rods, etc.  The domes are aluminum, since I had some aluminum pipe laying around.  Cab and (I think) tender are scratchbuilt using  my rivet machine.  I will post a close-up of a tender so you can see the rivet detail.4004


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And my latest Lobaugh Challenger - not exactly UP, but you get the idea.  I have a lot of these, some almost entirely scratchbuilt, but always following the Lobaugh patterns.  This one came from the estate of my friend Peter Cozens - for years, Peter would ask questions about how to put it together.  I think this model was in fact the basis of our friendship.  I think that is why I bought it.  Peter had all the parts gathered, but was still kind of thinking about construction.  I finished it in his honor.  He was way too young to croak.



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 Glad you posted. I like the weathering on the BB.  The thread is supposed to be fun.  It's all about how we enjoy modeling the UP and sharing images of the different O gauge / O scale models we have.  I'd enjoy seeing more.  

Every time I wonder if I'll ever finish the locomotive projects I've sidelined or start to think maybe it's time to get out and start selling, I end up running through this thread. I'll see something I haven't seen before or I remember how much I satisfaction I get from the hobby.  Then I catch the fever again.....

Look at it this way:  we are fortunate to have the leisure time and bucks to have a hobby.  This is probably a recent thing for humanoids.  Enjoy it, and do not worry about how you over-do it.  That is what wives are for.

You could do like a lot of folks, and spend leisure time (and retirement) in a bar.  Instead, you preserve a little piece of history in a storable package.  A lot of these models will survive for hundreds of years.

Now back to the subject at hand - somebody vote to move this entire thread to someplace where it can be seen - like 3-rail scale?

boiler 009And herewith some rivets - this one is a 17/64 AC-4 tender, and its insides are a simple wood block.  Pay no attention to the incorrect trucks; I have lots of correct ones.  I am just being ornery.

By the way, it won't be long before I get some decent shots of the Monster.  I may try today!


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bob2 posted:

......Now back to the subject at hand - somebody vote to move this entire thread to someplace where it can be seen - like 3-rail scale?

I understand the idea, but I think it's in the right forum.  Since the intent of the thread is really about "seeing" and sharing photos.

I think 3RS or 2R might intimidate some members from sharing other great Union Pacific models.

I also feel, being here in the calmer backwaters has lent itself to the longevity of the thread.  It would get buried too deep in the busier forums.

Keep 'em coming.

Scratch-built.  Mostly .020 brass.  Rear of water tank is hammered out of .032 to give me extra material to file smooth.

The SP 5000 is not a good starting point.  The UP cab is dramatically different.  Why not start with a UP 2-10-2 and put a new smokebox and extend the forward frame?

bob2 posted:

Scratch-built.  Mostly .020 brass.  Rear of water tank is hammered out of .032 to give me extra material to file smooth.

The SP 5000 is not a good starting point.  The UP cab is dramatically different.  Why not start with a UP 2-10-2 and put a new smokebox and extend the forward frame?

I only want the KTM or 3rd Rail drive train, which is why I'm looking for a junker. Instead of a Frankenstein-frame job, my plan was just to use the working drive train from the 4-10-2 combined with a modified extended boiler from a KTM TTT and scratch build the simplified steam chest, piston covers, large stack and sand dome.  Use a modified Sunset or KTM 9000 tender converted to oil.  Finally add details to prototype.


Then again it would be great if Scott Mann and 3rd Rail just made a proper one. Communication with Scott however, he felt it was a no go as there wasn't enough interest when it was previously offered.  I would argue the problem was in offering the earlier 3 cylinder 8800/8000 class instead of the later simplified 5090 class.  More popular locomotive and in a more popular later time period for Union Pacific modelers (1942-1954). Heavy use on the Cajon Pass and a must have.


Or maybe Lionel will grow a pair and offer it as the next brass hybrid.


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A frame extension is trivial compared to fabricating cylinders.  But you may be correct - the SP boiler is straight across the top, and the MG 2-10-2 might have the wrong taper for your project.

Scratch building is not for everybody - my first was at age 44.  It is extremely satisfying - you get to the point where you know you can have any locomotive you want.

This is a wonderful thread - I hope I have not taken it over.  My next task for my 4-12-2 is the firebox ash pan screening.  I plan to duplicate that shown on page 220 of Kratville's Vol 1.  My question, for those familiar with brass fine mesh screening is - what would be the best mesh to use, and is there an easy source?  And does it come with a selvage edge?

Hey, the more participation the better. Just remember it's all about the photos....

Besides, now I've been motivated to get off my duff and finish up the mods on my E7 project.  The decals just arrived so I can apply the period correct "Union Pacific" nose herald.



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I agree, the forum is in the right place, because everyone here is interested in the subject matter and very few if any wanderers coming in to start fire storms.  Just sort of a private party.  I've been off forum for awhile, because little time to work on the 2-10-2 and this forum often sleeps as we all work on projects, but you've woken it up Bob!  Whaaaaa hoooooo!   Keep posting!

Witt, when I bought this model from Peter, this was the only loco he built. He didn't think any importer was going to do it any more correct than USH, which was very generic and way off base for a UP 2-10-2. When I see all the modifications he made, I can see why it took years to complete and doubt he had time to do much else. He owned and operated a hobby shop and this was his evening getaway.  I think it would have just stressed me out. 

Gary Schrader said it is the most rube goldberg assembled loco he has ever seen,even though it is very accurate to the prototype. I haven't heard back from him since sending out the boiler to remove the batteries and boiler weights.  He might have just left the hobby due to this model....just kidding, he's still fixing up other peoples and manufacturers screw ups and just finished some very nice OMI FT's. 


In contrast, I admit to spending extra time and thought to make locomotives so they disassemble easily.  The 4-12-2 comes apart with two screws, and soon I will rig it so that is true even with lead truck attached.

My articulateds, including the eight UP Challengers, all come apart with three screws - because a single screw at the cylinder block would go right through the drive shaft.

Sometimes simpler is way better - even if you have to forego petticoat stack detail.

Scalecoat I, Armor Yellow, showed up yesterday.  I felt a little motivated to work on the E7 roof hand grabs. I've already drilled the holes and sized the brass wire rod. After a day or two to completely dry I'll clear coat them with Testors clear/matte and get them installed.  After that it's just a few decals, blast of clear coat, number boards, then reassemble......




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