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I’ve sent Lionel an email about this issue, that’s really all I can do.  I’ve heard from some dealers that said it won’t be fixed, some others said it will, truthfully I don’t know what to believe.  Lionel made a great model here and I love everything except the color.  I think a lot will depend on the color of the cars.  If they are that bright red then I don’t think they’ll change it.  Hopefully we’ll get a resolution soon!  

For us Strasburg fans on the plus side the new 611 goes will be the bright red ketchup and mustard cars lol!

Doug N posted:

I sure hope they correct this.

I am going to run mine until they request them back to fix the stripe.  I am 100% confident they will or I wouldn't be taking it home.  Until then I'll just use that imagination that it is running in bright sunlight at that perfect angle.  

Last edited by MartyE

If I am going by Lionel’s time table they set for me when I last called I should hear something this week or next.  But then again Lionel never follows an actual schedule......  I am hopeful that something will happen and the fact they are at least discussing it is a good thing.  I do wonder what the response from hobby shops have been.  They will make the most impact on this decision.

I got mine and opened up and tested it out.  I have a slightly loose boiler front and the shell seems just a tad loose too.  I'll check those screws later.

Other than the stripe color, I wouldn't have taken it from the LHS if I wasn't 100% confident Lionel will be taking care of and I won't comment further on, the engine is beautiful.  If I had one complaint, is that as Derek pointed out in his Youtube video, they didn't have road number specific call outs when having the 611's engineer do the recordings.  Seems like it would have been a logical choice to do so. 

Here are a few pictures with the TMCC 606 and a quick video.

611 on the left.  606 on the right.

Photo Nov 18, 8 08 56 PM

 

Photo Nov 18, 8 08 51 PM

606 J from around 2005.

Photo Nov 18, 8 06 19 PM

611 "Spirit of Roanoke" 2019

Photo Nov 18, 8 06 13 PM

Photo Nov 18, 8 00 55 PM

Photo Nov 18, 8 00 42 PM

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Last edited by MartyE

Yeah I totally agree with that.  I love the fact that the crew talk is different voices but they never mention 611.  Actually the more I think of it I am not sure if any of my Legacy engines say the number.  2102 doesn't, my older Legacy 611 doesn't, I am not sure if my 765 does (even though I think they actually used the 765 crew to record it).  Perhaps it's a cost saving situation where they can just use the same recording for all the same engines and call it a day.  But I agree, they missed an opportunity to have 611 specific crew chatter.  Meh, can't have everything I guess.  

The first Legacy 765 has the loco specific crew talk....and I really like it.  I don't think the subsequent two did, though.

At some point, Big Orange changed this feature to mostly Vision Line only....which I think was a mistake.  Why add Whistle Steam....and then go cheap on the sound?  (Actually, the prices went up and the loco specific sound disappeared.)

Berkshire President posted:

The first Legacy 765 has the loco specific crew talk....and I really like it.  I don't think the subsequent two did, though.

At some point, Big Orange changed this feature to mostly Vision Line only....which I think was a mistake.  Why add Whistle Steam....and then go cheap on the sound?  (Actually, the prices went up and the loco specific sound disappeared.)

You can save money when a genetic dialog can be used across multiple models. Simple economics. 

Engine specific crew talk and towercom started with Railsounds 5.0 in 2004 and carried over to Railsounds 5.5.  When Lionel went to Railsounds Lite (6.0?) in 2010-11 cab-specific largely went away except for Vision Line and a few other exceptions as Berkshire notes above.  Thing is with the new J's Lionel's catalog advertised "Crew talk recorded with the crew of 611," which is true.  I spoke with Scott Lindsay, the 611's Chief Mechanical Engineer, a couple of weeks ago when the 611 was on display in Spencer, NC.  He told me he recorded the crew talk earlier this year but nothing was cab-specific.  I can definitely recognized his voice in my new Spirit of Roanoke engine.  I agree Lionel missed an opportunity to really please it's customers but going generic once again, even after acquiring the services of the real 611 crew. 

MartyE posted:
Berkshire President posted:

The first Legacy 765 has the loco specific crew talk....and I really like it.  I don't think the subsequent two did, though.

At some point, Big Orange changed this feature to mostly Vision Line only....which I think was a mistake.  Why add Whistle Steam....and then go cheap on the sound?  (Actually, the prices went up and the loco specific sound disappeared.)

You can save money when a genetic dialog can be used across multiple models. Simple economics. 

True it's cost saving. However, if you're going to bring the engineer from the prototype to do the crew talk (assuming they used it in one engine only) why not have them add the road number in. Like with the 765, my friend has the early (2010) run and my uncle has the new (2014) run. Why not just reuse the original (2010) run crew talk, assuming the files are still there, Makes no sense to me. Another question, so then why do the vision engines get road specific crew talk, because there made only every other year?  To add a monkey wrench to this (and to continue my point with 765), the latest big boy (2019) will have road specific crew talk and there using the files from the VL big boy. Makes no sense. 

MartyE posted:
Berkshire President posted:

The first Legacy 765 has the loco specific crew talk....and I really like it.  I don't think the subsequent two did, though.

At some point, Big Orange changed this feature to mostly Vision Line only....which I think was a mistake.  Why add Whistle Steam....and then go cheap on the sound?  (Actually, the prices went up and the loco specific sound disappeared.)

You can save money when a genetic dialog can be used across multiple models. Simple economics. 

I don't care how much money Lionel makes.  I care about the quality of the product I receive and what I pay for said product.

Certain features, like Whiste Steam and excellent sound quality, can be intensive works of engineering.

Not using sound files that you already have is simply being cheap and inexcusable....and lazy.

Or, it may be another sign that the 15 year old girl putting the locomotive together in China really has no idea what she is doing.....and QC is not existent.....like on pink 611 Stripes, Neon Green Challengers and Mallets......and on and on.

My thoughts and opinions after attending the Charles Ro open house:

I asked the Charles Ro family if the had any returns from dissatisfied customers.  I was told they only had a few returns.

Ryan Kunkle and I had a very pleasant conversation about the J stripe issue.  He said it is important for customers to contact Lionel if they are dissatisfied with their engine.  If the shells were to be replaced, the replacement shells from the manufacture would be installed by Lionel stateside.  At the time of our conversation, Lionel was in the process of gathering information on how many customers were going to request new shells.  

My opinions from a business point of view:

 If there  is enough customers interest in replacements shells, then most likely they will be produced and then installed by Lionel

From a business cost stand point and customer satisfaction  Do you replace the shells; offer a full refund; or some form of a rebate?

  

Chris

Chrico posted:

 

Ryan Kunkle and I had a very pleasant conversation about the J stripe issue.  He said it is important for customers to contact Lionel if they are dissatisfied with their engine.  If the shells were to be replaced, the replacement shells from the manufacture would be installed by Lionel stateside.  At the time of our conversation, Lionel was in the process of gathering information on how many customers were going to request new shells.  

 

Chris

This alone is why Lionel needs to say something.  I have maintained that as long as Lionel was going to fix the stripe, I would keep mine.  If they are not it will go back to the dealer.  I have talked to Ryan at York and Dave at the warehouse sale and expressed my opinion. As of this writing based on what I had learned, I am keeping mine.  I suppose that could change but I am confident they will fix it. 

Folks need to know what Lionel's plan is so that they can decide what action they take.  A lot of times people take a wait and see attitude rather than making the call.

Called Lionel 3 times today, twice I was told that their customer service was unavailable for an hour and the last time I was on hold for 10 mins before it went to a voicemail which was filled.  So maybe they went on Thanksgiving break already, I don't know.  All I know is what I posted previously.  To piggy back on what the previous post was I strongly urge you, if you haven't done so already, to email Lionel and voice your disappointment that way.  Hopefully they will based their decision on the number of emails they receive.  

What will happen to all the Norfolk and Western 611 engines that are in dealer inventory?  Are the dealers being informed that they should voice their objections to the color of the stripe?  Satisfying just a few current owners who call Lionel, will leave all the other engines sitting in dealer inventory unchanged.

So to get a correctly painted engine, do you have to buy one, and them complain to Lionel to get a correctly painted new shell?  Will the new shells be painted correctly?

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Rowlen posted:

What will happen to all the Norfolk and Western 611 engines that are in dealer inventory?  Are the dealers being informed that they should voice their objections to the color of the stripe?  Satisfying just a few current owners who call Lionel, will leave all the other engines sitting in dealer inventory unchanged.

So to get a correctly painted engine, do you have to buy one, and them complain to Lionel to get a correctly painted new shell?  Will the new shells be painted correctly?

Sincerely, John Rowlen

 

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Did anyone buy the RPO tool car for the 611? That also is more reddish compared to the catalog picture and matches up more with the 611 stripe. Will lionel correct that as well? What about the passenger car 4 pack? I am assuming that also might be wrong. They have pushed the delivery date back to Feb 2020 now. I don't think it might be worth for Lionel to do a total recall. They are going to have problems either way 

I see. I think they deleted that post. Can't find it.

Anyway I don't see a good solution to this problem. If they correct the engine they will have to correct the passenger cars as well. They might have to redo everything but that is a very big loss and I don't think they will do it.

Anyway I would like to email them, do you send it to "TalkToUS@LIONEL.COM"  ?

The entire BTO idea is a giant issue.  Especially if the photo doesn't match the finished product.  I would love to get one of the brand new Hudson's coming out but now I am just of the mindset that I am going to have to see it first before I commit that large amount of money to it.  Which stinks because I may miss out on it but I rather know what I am getting before I buy it.  It's like buying a car without seeing it, none of us would do that.  There is really no reason to keep rehashing the situation here, we all know it's painted wrong.  I have kind of been on a mission ever since this engine came out to get at least an answer from Lionel.  All the information I have officially from the company is that they are discussing it.  I have heard a lot of hearsay, both positive and negative about this issue getting resolved.  As soon as I hear some more information I will post it.  

As I mentioned previously the best thing to do is to reach out to Lionel directly, call them and email them.  Let them know you are dissatisfied with the product.  But please be nice about it.  I would never help anyone who was being mean to me personally.  Be respectful.  That's how we fix this.  Hopefully we will get an answer soon. 

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