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eddie g posted:

In 1950 it was changed to NY Telegram & Sun. The Telegram bought out the Sun. I know because my father was advertising director of the Sun. "Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus." I doubt anyone on here remembers that.

If I remember correctly, the NY Sun was the home of Don Marquis and the famous "Archie the Cockroach" who wrote about, among other things, Mehitabel the cat in daily collumns famous for only having lowercase letters 

If anyone on here remembers the "Yes, Virginia, there is a santa clause" when it was published they either are a vampire, a time traveller or otherwise really super annuated (I believe that was published back in the 1890's).  On the other hand the story itself has been quoted and published a lot, especially around Christmas. 

Ben, I have neglected to hop on this topic and tell you how much I enjoy seeing the Old New York photographs that everyone is sharing.  I always find "then and now" photographs to be fascinating.  I have never been to New York in my 62 years, but I do recognize many places from photographs.  Pittsburgh is "The Big City" to me!    Yinz can quit laughing any time now!  

Namvet4 posted:

I have fond memories of my father and I riding the Delay, Linger and Wait (D.L& W)  to Hoboken and going to the train show that was held in the upper room(s) of the terminal. We would take a trip across on the ferry to NYC and eat lunch and walk about downtown. We would then buy a bunch of flowers from a street vendor to take home to my Mom. We would then take the ferry back to Hoboken and board the D.L& W for the ride home. That was over 60 years ago ... I miss my Dad and the good times we had together because we liked our trains, real and toy!

That was more than a train show at Hoboken.  It was one of the great O gauge model railroads of all time, the New York Society of Model Engineers.  They had a model of the Delaware Water Gap that must ahve been at least four feet high above the traks.  It included a model of the Hoboken terminal in which the layout was built.  They even had an MU branch line.  I live in Westchester and when I was in high school (1949-55) I woudlgo over to Hoboken when they had a show.  IO still have photos that I took in 1951/52 of the lst DL&W steam, a 4-6-2 waiting for a boonton Branch train.

 

womansworld2

 

Yup thats the Pennsy's Kearny yard   Its a CSX Intermodal facility now on one side and NJ Transit storage and Maintenance facility on the other  Heres how it looks now

800px-Railroad_yards_in_Kearney,_New_Jersey

If you look really really really close you can see Chef Vinny  He works just to the right of the yard

Staying with the old here are some Pennsy engines at Kearny

tumblr_mosbguPpd21s4agmuo1_1280

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Images (2)
  • 800px-Railroad_yards_in_Kearney,_New_Jersey
  • tumblr_mosbguPpd21s4agmuo1_1280
Mark Boyce posted:

Ben, I have neglected to hop on this topic and tell you how much I enjoy seeing the Old New York photographs that everyone is sharing.  I always find "then and now" photographs to be fascinating.  I have never been to New York in my 62 years, but I do recognize many places from photographs.  Pittsburgh is "The Big City" to me!    Yinz can quit laughing any time now!  

Well we have to rectify that and have you at the club  Cmon down

I have been to Pittsburgh and had a great time there   These may make you feel at home

BO1900BO1950BO1954

This just happens to be one of those engines I wish somebody would make  Its an Alco Century 415Monongahela Connecting ALCO C415 701 In 1969 At Pittsburgh PA

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Images (4)
  • BO1900
  • BO1950
  • BO1954
  • Monongahela Connecting ALCO C415 701 In 1969 At Pittsburgh PA
bluelinec4 posted:
Mark Boyce posted:

Ben, I have neglected to hop on this topic and tell you how much I enjoy seeing the Old New York photographs that everyone is sharing.  I always find "then and now" photographs to be fascinating.  I have never been to New York in my 62 years, but I do recognize many places from photographs.  Pittsburgh is "The Big City" to me!    Yinz can quit laughing any time now!  

Well we have to rectify that and have you at the club  Cmon down

I have been to Pittsburgh and had a great time there   These may make you feel at home

BO1900BO1950BO1954

This just happens to be one of those engines I wish somebody would make  Its an Alco Century 415Monongahela Connecting ALCO C415 701 In 1969 At Pittsburgh PA

Thank you Ben!  

Yes, the old B&O station.  I grew up out in the country in the same house my dad and grandpa grew up in.  However, it was about 1/4 mile from a rural B&O station.  Dad said they would ride the train in to the Pittsburgh B&O station then take a streetcar out to Oakland to see the Pirates play in Forbes Field.  He took us to Forbes Field later, but the B&O had stopped passenger service by the mid '60s.

Good point about not seeing a model of the Alco Century 415.

At the turn of the century , the Els in Brooklyn were being consolidated into a single system which came to be known as the Brooklyn Rapid Transit or BRT. BRT's focus at the time was to expand its operations into Manhattan and to increase capacity and services using the East River crossings existing, under construction or planned. 

The Williamsburg Bridge opened for traffic in 1903. Initially Trolleys from the company's B&QT company which was the streetcar arm of BRT operated across the Bridge into an Underground Manhattan Terminal. El operations across the bridge were also planned but not in operation when the Bridge opened in 1903.

BRT engineers and management had an interest in loop operation and design similar to that hich was operating in Chicago. The Sands Street complex utilized a loop concept for trains ending their runs in downtown Brooklyn . The theory and rsults achieved that since it was unnecessary to change ends when the train reach its last stop, the dwell time was reduced which meant the terminal could accommodate more trains in a given time period. At the turn of the century, The BRT envisioned , planned and actually began construction on a large loop system which would tie together its trackage and terminals at the Manhattan and Brooklyn ends of each of the three bridges, Brooklyn , Manhattan and Williamsburg. A Multitrack El line was planned in Manhattan running on Center Street . The El structure was actually in place on the Williamsburg bridge on the Manhattan side when the bridge opened in 1903. New York City fought the plan insisting on a Subway route. The City prevailed and the Center street El never came topass.

Here is a photo showing the Williamsburg Bridhg Manhatta side with the El structure in place. 

WB Bridge Manhattan 1906

And on the Brooklyn side, The Sands street terminal was already in place but never fully used as the BRT had envisioned. 

 

Sand street

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Images (2)
  • WB Bridge Manhattan 1906
  • Sand street
LIRR Steamer posted:

At the turn of the century , the Els in Brooklyn were being consolidated into a single system which came to be known as the Brooklyn Rapid Transit or BRT. BRT's focus at the time was to expand its operations into Manhattan and to increase capacity and services using the East River crossings existing, under construction or planned. 

The Williamsburg Bridge opened for traffic in 1903. Initially Trolleys from the company's B&QT company which was the streetcar arm of BRT operated across the Bridge into an Underground Manhattan Terminal. El operations across the bridge were also planned but not in operation when the Bridge opened in 1903.

BRT engineers and management had an interest in loop operation and design similar to that hich was operating in Chicago. The Sands Street complex utilized a loop concept for trains ending their runs in downtown Brooklyn . The theory and rsults achieved that since it was unnecessary to change ends when the train reach its last stop, the dwell time was reduced which meant the terminal could accommodate more trains in a given time period. At the turn of the century, The BRT envisioned , planned and actually began construction on a large loop system which would tie together its trackage and terminals at the Manhattan and Brooklyn ends of each of the three bridges, Brooklyn , Manhattan and Williamsburg. A Multitrack El line was planned in Manhattan running on Center Street . The El structure was actually in place on the Williamsburg bridge on the Manhattan side when the bridge opened in 1903. New York City fought the plan insisting on a Subway route. The City prevailed and the Center street El never came topass.

Here is a photo showing the Williamsburg Bridhg Manhatta side with the El structure in place. 

WB Bridge Manhattan 1906

And on the Brooklyn side, The Sands street terminal was already in place but never fully used as the BRT had envisioned. 

 

Sand street

The second pic is not the Williamsburg Bridge at all.  That is the Manhattan Bridge in the center, and the Brooklyn Bridge at the extreme left.  Sands St. is in Downtown Brooklyn, not in Williamsburg. 

Sorry if I misled anyone. The story intent was to discuss the overall BRT plan of a large loop system which would have connected the three East River crossings on both the Manhattan and the Brooklyn side. The first part of this plan was the Park Row terminal, the proposed Southern end of the loop in Manhattan , the Brooklyn Bridge crossing and on the Brooklyn side of the Brooklyn Bridge , the Sands Street complex which was the proposed Southern end of the loop in Brooklyn. This part of the plan was operational prior to completion of El service on the Williamsburg Bridge. The plan as an El Loop never went any further than this development because of the City's insistence on a Centre st Subway in Manhattan alternate plan. 

The Centre st subway did ultimately lead to the completion of a Loop service configuration using the Manhattan Bridge The Nassau St extension and the Montague st Tunnel with the Dekalb Ave complex in Brooklyn. The Eastern division operations would use the Centre St Subway to reach downtown Manhattan through Chambers St. The P_ark Row, Brooklyn Bridge Sand Street part of the loop scheme became superfluous and was removed form service by 1944. 

LIRR Steamer posted:

I came across a pair of interesting photos from Art Huneke's site  . They show the crossing of the Montauk Branch at Flushing ave. The photos are taken from Mount Olivet tower about 1948 .  The crossing is at grade and the BQT Flushing Ave Trolley tracks can be seen The trolleys were still in operation with service to Park Row over the Brooklyn Bridge,so it was an active rail crossing as well. The industrial Building is one of several used by Welbilt for the manufactre of stoves and ovens and other appliances. Just to the right but not seen in the photo was Flushing ave crossing of the Bushwick Branch tracks. They went through the building . In the 1950s, the grade crossings were eliminated when Flushing ave was depressed in this area.

 

The steam engine and caboose are heading West towards Maspeth and LongIsland City. It is one of LIRRs H10s consolidations. The Hack actually is a PRR N6b cabin so yes you can run your MTH PRR N6b with your LIRR H10s.The markings on the cabin are very minimal. Interesting find.

 

 

LI105frMV1948cu2 [1)

 

 

LI105MV1948hackCU2

Such a cool thread. Love this photo as the lower montauk is a branch I would eventually love to model. So much good stuff to read here! 

I have just finished rereading the whole thread ()seen only in bits and pieces as it grew over the years).   I have to echo what many have said earlier:  marvelous stuff!  The architecture and the engineering really interest me though I have no desire whatever to live there, at any point:  too many people packed into tiny spaces!

Anyway, I wanted to make an observation:  reading through the collectors guides, one reads criticism of the various toy/model train manufacturers' street light/lamp post offerings as being too large and out of scale.  Looking through these pics, I believe that criticism to be invalid.   Some of those lights and posts appear to fully 30 - 40 feet tall.  Some of them may even be too *short* paired with SG trains.

It was also interesting to see prototypes of crossing sheds, crossing gates, and signals that inspired many miniature offerings.   It was like looking at a Lionel, Flyer, IVES, or Bing catalog.

Regarding the previous posts concerning the BRT's loop system in lower Manhattan, a book I read recently goes into extensive engineering and operational detail about that system as well as many other aspects of the BMT: "The BMT, A Technical and Operational History" by Alfred E. Fazio. It is at times dense with technical detail, but being an engineer by training, I found it a fascinating read, and I learned a lot about the BMT.

Fazio's volume on the BMT engineering and operation is a must have for any fan of the BMT. The system was developed and evolved based on engineering considerations perhaps more so than the other two systems operating in New York prior to the takeover by New York City.

The loop system was interesting because like the Chicago system, it was intended to run through trains into destinations areas and return them quickly. This increased the capacity of the facilities.

The other fascinating part  of the BMT thinking was their focus on developing lightweight prototype cars to extend the life of its el system

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