command control in williams

Charlie, Yes you can.  You can put in PS-2 or ERR Package.  For PS-2 you get MTH sound sets.  For ERR you would get a RS package.  If you kept the Williams sound you would not have command control of the sounds.  G

I have a PS2 kit in a Williams E-7 and it runs flawlessly.    STRONG engine, and smooth.  Not a simple process if done right, but if you're not up to it there are a few guys on here that do great work on upgrades.   

why ruin a good thing. I like Williams for its simplicity (conventional operation) as well as its durability

Because Williams makes the engine he wants and he also wants command control. Simple answer.  I have found running trains with DCS no more complicated than running them conventionally.

Exactly so.

That is the beauty of a Williams engine. You can keep it conventional or put command control in it. The choice is up to you! I have had Williams engines converted to PS-2 and if it's done by a qualified technician you won't have any problem and the engine will run great.  

I don't think 'simplicity' is referring to running the trains.  I think it is referring to this: 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...se-expensive-repairs

My roster includes four MTH engines.  Half (two) are now shelf queens because of fried electronics and will probably never be returned to command control, due to the high cost of the repairs.

Earl

I don't see how one thread of the most expensive things that has gone wrong is indicative of all command control engines.  

What I don't understand is why question the guy's choice in his thread where is is asking about the difficulty of adding command control, not the opinions on adding it to conventional engines.

If you also look across many of the issues people have with the electronics, many times they are user error and nothing inherent of the electronics themselves.

This brings back memories of years (decades) ago.  I would peruse the JC Whitney catalog and marvel at all the VW Bug aftermarket items.  About a fourth of the catalog was devoted to items to hop up the bug, make it more comfortable, powerful, etc. 

People bought the bug becasue it was cheap and reliable.  Then some spent hundreds upgrading it to be more like the vehicles they passed over when deciding to get the VW.  Sometimes spending more in the long run than the equivalent vehicle.

Similarities--not necessarily bad similarities, but similarities nontheless.

I enjoy command control, even running older Postwar Lionel--go for it.

Years ago LIONEL said I was one of the first to ask for command control in my old 736 and 2333, why can't it be done for $20-25 per engine? I know everything has gone up, but there are tons of old post war engines out there that could be brought back to use and enjoyment.

Cost is the number 1 reason it hasn't been done, the firs t person to do this will find a huge market, in my opinion.

Feel free to express your opinion here as I may be wrong, but I doubt it.

Feeling better Rod

Probably because nobody can make any money building the boards for that price.

You can get the CruiseCommander kit for just over $100 and that will give you TMCC command control and cruise.  You can swap couplers for coils if you chose to.  You will lose the TrueBlast2 horn but that's not much of a loss.  A complete RS sound set will set you back about $80.

I just completed this transition on a WBB F-3 last evening.  The hardest part was getting up the courage to cut the first wire.  Other than that, the entire task took about 30 minutes start to finish, 10 minutes of which were spent reading the directions.  As to why I did this, the loco came at at great price new, the start speed and control in conventional is too "quick" so command affords me greater control with walk around.  For under $200 (quite a bit actually including the price of the new board) I have a loco I like in the livery I like with better control.  I will upgrade the WBB FM later this week.  If I care to add sounds later I can purchase and drop in the appropriate card.  This is a win-win for anyone with a screwdriver, a wire stripper and a few wire nuts. 

You can get the modular connectors that match what Williams uses to make a reversible install.  These are common connectors in the RC car/air plane hobby for wiring up battery packs.   You can cut those to easily make a series or parallel harness to go to the ERR board.  If you choose to go back to the Williams E-Unit the molex connectors from the mother board are still there.  The most difficult part of the conversion is installation of a run/program switch.  Very few Williams engines have a switch on the frame that can be re-purposed.

Chuck, why in the world would you want to go back?

In case you wanted to re-use the board in a different engine?

Not Williams, but I recently installed the ERR Cruise Commander and Railsounds units in a Railking RS3 that originally was Locosounds.  Runs and sounds great!

I had the Cruise Commander in my WBB E7, shouldn't be a problem putting it in a Williams GP38, but check for space (the dimensions of the boards are on the ERR site).

Overall, if a person has any thoughts of going command control they're better off $$$-wise to go ahead and get a command control engine.  When I bought the RS3 I didn't know conventional from command so I learned along the way.

Don't forget, command control engines can be run conventionally.

I even fought going command for a few years, but once I saw how slowly a command engine can be run under DCS and/or TMCC I was hooked.

If I were to change I would go RC/battery control and do away with track power.

Installing the ERR units in a diesel is easy, I would think installing PS2 in a steamer may be easier as long as there's a flywheel on the motor.  Installing reed switches/axle cams doesn't sound like much fun to me, that's why I would stay away from ERR for steamers.

necrails: Good for you on the conversion. Goes back to what I asked on the Forum a couple of days ago, how come there have not been any articles written about doing conversions to add Command Control and Sound on other manufactured engines?

Model Railroader Mag run articles on doing conversion to add sound and DCC at least several times a year to different engines and manufacturers. 

Is it because no one is willing to write articles for OGR Magazine?

I have yet to purchase anything other than MTH and TMCC engines because I do not know what is involved in making the modifications, let alone IF such a modification can be done.

"Is it because no one is willing to write articles for OGR Magazine?"

No.   Most of the O Gauge crowd are into open box and place on track and it's supposed to work.   While these conversions aren't brain surgery they aren't simple board swaps either.  

It's hard to do an article on something that can be extremely varied.  An full width cab (F3/F7) install is easier than a narrow hood install (RS-3/GEEP).  Things come up like "Where do I put the "extra" stuff".  How do I attach that to the frame/shell/truck.

The installation manuals for ERR stuff can be downloaded before you buy so you have some idea of what you are getting into.  These are well thought out an well photographed/illustrated.

Fundamentally there is no difference in modern engines from a chassis standpoint.

Atlas, Williams, Weaver, etc... use DC Can motors. Adding TMCC from ERR is no different for any of these engines.  Same for PS-2 upgrades, though PS-2 does require a flywheel, which most engines have.   G

I don't think it would be much of an article.  The instructions for the CC board are pretty clear.  The WBB loco has color coded wire so all that had to be done was assemble the necessary tools and begin the task.  The only fix was to re connect the wires to the motor because after programming the loco started in reverse.  The instructions warned of that so a simple swap of the wires solved the issue.  While it may not be a simple board swap the task was as simple as the come.  I am all for open box, place on rails and go but the two WBB locos came to me at the low end of the price point and I like them in their CNJ colors.  Overall an inexpensive project with an upside later on.

I personally don't see the reed switch and magnet as much of a problem, that's a minor step in installing the sound in a steamer.  I figure it's about balanced out by the fact that you have to install the flywheel tape and sensor for the PS/2 upgrade.

I think the PS/2 upgrade is a bit cheaper as you get everything you need for the installation as a rule, for the ERR upgrades, you need to still come up with the tether, wiring, and any extra lighting you want to install.  The choice really boils down to what you're comfortable with and what command system you run.

Thanks John, never done it so I didn't know.

Other than determining the tach tape (and sound file) to use, installing PS2 in a steamer is fairly easy.

Bob, the effort to install the ERR stuff is pretty similar to the PS/2, so if you're comfortable with the PS/2 process, you'll have no problems with an ERR install.

One consideration is that Williams doesn't have a space saving provision for the speaker under the frame.  Converting my Williams Genesis to PS2 was easy because of the spacious interior but that large speaker container does take up a lot of room.

Speaker can be mounted vertically in the Williams baffle, or even up in the shell.  G

I've never done the conversion myself, but I had TrainAmerica install TMCC into my brass Williams engines 8-10 years ago.  Here's what was done:

• PRR K4s:  TMCC, EOB, Railsounds 4, rear tender electrocoupler
• PRR K4s:  TMCC, EOB, Railsounds 4, rear tender electrocoupler
• PRR L1s:  TMCC, EOB, Railsounds 4, rear tender electrocoupler
• PRR B6sb:  TMCC, front / rear electrocoupler

I love them.  They work great in either TMCC or conventional modes.  Weaver or ERR can do TMCC installs for you.

George

Well, my conversions are complete, the install was simple.  As far as spending money to upgrade what could have been purchased new from another manufacturer, that was included in the thought process.  What happened was one loco came to me in a trade for something else that was purchased at a very low price (very very low).  The other was a score on ebay that must have been listed in the wrong location because I should have never won that auction.  The cost of the TMCC board is being offset a bit by selling the reverse board removed.  So I end up with a loco that I still like and can be run remotely.  I really don't care for all the sounds and electo couplers so this was a good fit.  The forum member I purchased these from (boxcarbill) I would use again if and when I do other conversions.  The bottom line is the upgrade was financially in the ballpark, let's me use something in the fleet with my other CC locos and I learned something.  All around a good week in the hobby for me.

I run W/WBB in TMCC Conv.

I put ERR in an E7 and even managed to put an electro coupler on the front of it. I can't remember now why not the rear of it, but the rear had a non operating coupler for the B unit, etc.