Lionel Legacy L1 Mikado …Tales From Harmon Shops

Heck I can't see it, but I'm glad that I don't have to. As long as Pat gets his ball pean hammer out, hits the heck out of it, and wala, all works well. Yeah, that is how confident I'm of how Pat is going to fix this engine. Rebuild it from the ground up as it were.

@gunrunnerjohn, John, what do you think the shroud is for? Do you think it is to protect the wiring to prevent what was going on with the Pennsy E6's or something else entirely?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

Heck I can't see it, but I'm glad that I don't have to. As long as Pat gets his ball pean hammer out, hits the heck out of it, and wala, all works well. Yeah, that is how confident I'm of how Pat is going to fix this engine. Rebuild it from the ground up as it were.

@gunrunnerjohn, John, what do you think the shroud is for? Do you think it is to protect the wiring to prevent what was going on with the Pennsy E6's or something else entirely?

The smoke units are right there at the flywheel on this model. As most folks tend to do, too much fluid is eventually gonna drip somewhere…if it gets on the flywheel, it’s sling city, …..that shroud is the first line of defense,….

Pat

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you look close, the clearance cut for the worm gear is to the right in the picture, that isn't supposed to be centered to leave room for the gear.  The spacer is on the right next to the worm gear.

Understood on not being centered in the opening. I’m talking about centered between the motor mount bracket, which presumably has the motor centered on.

The green dot is center.

Testing is still ongoing, but I’ll share some findings as I go along, ….So I’ve dyed the gears, and ran a pattern, although the worm wheel is offset, the worm shaft does make decent contact. It’s a pretty fat worm shaft, and it does make up for some of the offset, ….The next thing I looked at is the clear plastic shim between the gear box and the motor mount. On the test rollers, with all the boards unplugged from the motor I was able to duplicate the issue in reverse with very low voltage DC. Moving in reverse, I was able to observe the jerky motion and every once in a while I could get it to “catch” and stop,….the slightest help on the flywheel and it would move again, …..I don’t think I was even at 100 rpm even,…..so we’re talking oober slow motion……..I tried removing the shim which BTW is a whopping .3 mm thick clear piece of like window plastic, but without the shim, the gears are bottoming out and locking up before I could snug the first screw. As a test, I made a new shim from .5 mm styrene sheet. This was a huge improvement in reverse!!…all the jerkiness went away, there was no noise, and I couldn’t force it into a lock up,…. But, ….forward still has the gear noise…..so still some studying needed,….

Pat

Interesting discussion. Clues, false leads, new discoveries....detective work that reads like a mystery!

Sorry for thinking but I just sort of realized that the best running diecast steam engines are not direct drive. The Pittman (and some Canon) drivetrains we all like have a universal between the motor and the worm. This allows the worm angle the opportunity to be independent of the motor angle. Any angular misalignment between the motor and gearbox doesn’t result in less than ideal gear mesh. The worm is between two ball bearings so the engagement is fixed very securely.

In this setup, the motor angle is the worm angle so it would have to be shimmed for ideal engagement if needed. It might be interesting to compare shims from a couple different engines.

I agree 100% Norm, any time you have a divorced gear box free & independent to move like it wants to is the ticket, …the one thing I’ve always noticed with these fixed worm angle set ups is any and all noise resonates like a SOB, ……sad fact is, this platform from MTH had a compound gear box from the get go, but divorced, …..they might’ve gotten away leaving the platform alone and simply used a 545 in place of the 9432 Pittman ….to be sure it would’ve been fine, ….why they went this route is mind boggling to say the least……

Pat

Drivetrains with separate gearboxes and universal joints aren’t without their gremlins either. I have a couple where the shaft tends to vibrate at certain speeds. I don’t think it can be helped without replacing them with “proper” universals with yokes instead of the cup and fork style that most use.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

@gunrunnerjohn, John, what do you think the shroud is for? Do you think it is to protect the wiring to prevent what was going on with the Pennsy E6's or something else entirely?

I haven't seen this one personally, but the shroud typically has been to keep the flywheel from hitting wiring.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I haven't seen this one personally, but the shroud typically has been to keep the flywheel from hitting wiring.

Pat also believes that it serves another purpose, to keep excess smoke fluid from hitting the flywheel John. That was what he said at the top of this page(2)

Shroud picture page 1

Pat has it pictured here, Norm seems to have blown it up a bit a few posts later.

I had planned to pick back up on Dave’s L1 after work today, ( Friday) but my hot water heater made my evening’s arrangements for me,…..we’ll get back to model trains after the plumbing festivities subside….🤮

Pat

Sorry to hear about that Pat.

Here I thought maybe the orange box people sent you a cease and desist letter.😉

So wouldn't it make make sense for the Orange Box People to consult with the Harmon Shops BEFORE putting the first one IN the box???? 🤣🤣

Sorry about the water heater Pat. Hope it just died and didn't flood the house.

Bob

Dang hot water heaters. Well Pat, trains can and will have to wait until the more important stuff gets taken care of.

It didn’t flood the house, thankfully I caught it in time. I had noticed the hot water waned off, and went immediately to take a look, ……that’s when I saw the leak, and noticed the breaker had shut down,…..the pan caught all the leak,…..had we been a away, it could’ve been a mess,…..

the orange box people can send all the letters they want, ……they should give me a medal, certainly not condemnation, ……😉

Pat

That is good you caught it before it made a mess. Seen a bunch of times where people found out the hard way. That ain't no fun.

@harmonyards posted:

I had planned to pick back up on Dave’s L1 after work today, ( Friday) but my hot water heater made my evening’s arrangements for me,…..we’ll get back to model trains after the plumbing festivities subside….🤮

Pat

I've had hot water heaters give up before, my current one is in a pan with a drain and a moisture alarm to alert me to the issue.  Glad to hear you didn't have any major issues from the incident.

@harmonyards posted:

I had planned to pick back up on Dave’s L1 after work today, ( Friday) but my hot water heater made my evening’s arrangements for me,…..we’ll get back to model trains after the plumbing festivities subside….🤮

Ugh always something huh. Sorry man. I have one that is turning 16 this year and I noticed the pop off valve seeping. This is a sign I think.

@rplst8 posted:

Ugh always something huh. Sorry man. I have one that is turning 16 this year and I noticed the pop off valve seeping. This is a sign I think.

16 years is a sign too.........

a big flashing neon one!

So I see I'm not the only one having to address this issue. These things never happen at an opportune time (if that exists), however I am thankful it's not winter.

Dave