MTH Authorized Service Center Wants $25 Fee Per Item For In Warranty Service

Report him to MTH, or to your local BBB.  That sounds a bit unethical to me.  If he didn't want to be in the game, he should have tried on the uniform.

Yup.  Makes me wonder if you are talking of the same store that I've had experience with.  They'll do warranty repairs for MTH stuff, but charge you if you didn't buy it from him.  As for Lionel items and this store, unless you buy it from them, they'll flat out tell you no if you need warranty work.  Anymore, I avoid the store at all costs.  I still will get MTH stuff, but just won't deal with this LHS unless I have too.

Perhaps you all should read the MTH warranty

 The following is right on the bottom of the page

* Authorized Service Centers (ASC) are only obligated to provide warranty service for any consumer who has purchased the specific M.T.H. item from them that requires service work.

 

Under the ASC terms they are not required to work on items not purchased from them. You can ship it to MTH but that will probably cost you more than $25.00. MTH only supplies parts under warranty to the repair shop,  MTH does not pay for the labor so the repair person would be working for free!

 

Next time support your LHS and they will probably support you. In the meantime tell MTH they should ay a minimum to their field techs.

Some items take only a few minutes to repair while others take hours. 

 

Would you work several hours for free?

 

This is how MTH warranty works, kinda of a suprise the first time you learn the details but that is the way it is folks...

 

Jim

The problem probably has something to do with the fact that MTH does not pay Authorized Service Centers for doing Warrenty Repairs. Too many people buy their trains mail order to save a couple of dollars over the local hobby shop but then expect the same shop to fix their problems when they arise. Instead of asking a fee he could have politely explained this and told the customer he would have to send the trains back to MTH or the store he bought them from. Now if the trains where bought at his store then he has an obligation to do the warrenty repair at no cost to the customer.

I agree as many LHS are going out of business due to the internet and our ability to shop for discounted prices. I'll accept that risk if I buy from discounters or send it back to the importer. Yes, $25 is a bummer but like said previously, postage is that costly or more and the $25 will help keep that LHS in business so you can return for other goods and services. I don't have but two HS and they don't carry much in O scale but one does repairs. Like now I need plaster cloth for scenery and to mail away could be costly as to buying it at LHS now. The only qualms I do have today is the LHS is 24 miles away and that is almost $10 in gas there and back. Front door del. some times isn't that bad at all,   sort of like christmas

Wow! this is a wake up for me. Thanks for the information. I can understand why they would charge.

Thank you for the clarification as it has been a couple of years since I have needed MTH service.  The last time I had warranty service done was by a different MTH authorized service center who kind enough to do the needed repairs and was not the dealer I bought the item from. 

 

M.T.H. products manufactured within five years from the date of purchase are warrantied for one year against defects in material or workmanship, excluding wear items such as light bulbs, pick-up rollers, batteries, smoke unit wicks, and traction tires.

Which is why I never reported it, because if figured they were covered in fine print somewhere.  Still lozey if you ask me.  Guess I feel this way because most other industries I've either worked in or had warranty work done it was covered, parts and labor, even if you didn't buy from them.

As for supporting LHS, I'm all for that, if they were more competitive in their pricing.  Mine only sell at list/M.S.R.P., never under, only over.  Where I've been able to get things mostly $100-200 USD off or more at times online.  Therefore it makes no economical sense to buy local.  If it was only a different of $50-75 then I'd buy local.  I'd have to give up on the hobby if I could only buy local.  That's just the sad facts of the economy right now and how it effects my life.

Other industries pay local techs, MTH doesn't. So that is why you can take your vehicle to any authorized dealer and get it fixed. I don't blame the dealer at all, I blame a crummy policy from MTH. Lionel is only slightly better, they pay about $12 plus parts to the warranty guy

 

But for whats it's worth it's not just them, I had a friend who was a Toro repair center. He finally gave up when he had one too many people buy their Toro items at Sears or other big box dealers yet rip him a new one when they walked into his store to get it repaired because the guy at the big box store put it together wrong.

Old saying: Some people want their cake and eat it too.

Maybe MTH's policy is a good thing

Sounds like people need to read the warranty information and not just assume they are entitled to "free" warranty service.  The fine print always gets you in the end.

 

Larry

 A National MTH Service Center has to take any MTH train no matter where you bought it,new. Plus, MTH will take your train for warranty service. 

That is true, the ASC's are pretty much there as an added service for the dealers to provide support to their customer. They can also do out of warranty repairs for a fee if they choose. The national centers are to support those who buy from a authorized dealer, meet the warranty requirements and need warranty repairs that cannot be done locally or are from a MTH dealer who is not an ASC

[I've been able to get things mostly $100-200 USD off or more at times online.  Therefore it makes no economical sense to buy local.  If it was only a different of $50-75 then I'd buy local.]

 

For the $100-$200 Dollars you saved, you should be able to handle the $25.00 service fee. It will still be cheaper then the Postage to ship it to MTH. I just returned a repair, MTH Premeir steam, from Pa. - Va. insured $1000.00. Cost of postage $30.00 Fed Ex. The owner saved $13.00 by not buying Insurance when he shipped it to me. That $13.00 would have seemed like a bargain had the engine been damaged in shipping.

MTH don't pay the labor for repairs. This might be hard to believe for some of you, but it cost money to run a store. Try supporting your local train store next time.

 

Kurt

I believe this is why NASCs (not ASCs) are rarer than hen's teeth. 

 

I think there were all of 2 nationwide when the program started.  Not a good benefit to the store undertaking the responsibility.  I know my dealer had zero interest in becoming an NASC (though he is of course an ASC so he can easily serve his loyal customers).

 

-Dave

 

How does the man making a living if you didn't buy the train there and now you want him to service it for free?  It's $25.  How much do you make for a living?  Do you work for free?

 

The one thing nobody has mentioned is that this is for the repair for a defective item that the importer/manufacturer should be responsible for. If the LHS isn't paid for the repair they shouldn't sell the stuff.

Other than MTH, my LHS is NOT an authorized Lionel Repair Service Center, because the owner did not want to spend the money and time for Lionel's training course, but the store is an authorized Lionel dealer!

For a slight nominal fee they will check the item for the problem and inform the customer of such.

And for another slight nominal fee, they will repair and/or replace the part after the customer first orders the part from Lionel.

To check for the problem was $25.00 and depending on the part needed, cost of the part and the location in the item, where the part goes, the cost can vary from $35.00 and up!!!!!!!!

The cost of one of my newer diesel locomotives, out of warranty, was cheaper to pay for S.&H. and repair to the Lionel repair center, when they were in Michigan.

I had to wait about two weeks, total time and the return freight cost me nothing, compliments of a-la Lionel and with a year warranty on the new part.

Ralph

 

MartyE,

My Lionel diesel problem happened way before I saw your Web.-Site on another forum.

If, I knew about your services, back then, I would have asked you first.

You do some great work.

I especially liked your service tips on Lionel's TMCC smoke units.

Thanks to your on-line advice, my Lionel TMCC smoke unit is up, running and smoking like a chimney!!

Ralph

I don't know the ins and outs of how warranty repairs are reimbursed by MTH but frankly, not my issue. I buy a $1,000+ engine with warranty and I expect if there's a problem MTH or it's ACS will fix it. No questions asked. I'm the customer. No customer, no MTH. I think I dealt with this guy too -$25 for a warranty repair. I told him that was the last time he'd ever hear from me. How's he supposed to make a living? Maybe through competitive pricing and good customer service? With respect, maybe we should be less concerned with the poor dealer and more concerned with how the customer is supposed to feel about spending a fortune on a pricey engine that's defective and now inconvenienced by needing to get it repaired - and getting stuck with a fee to return it to the condition it should have been in to start with. He's the only MTH ACS I have ever run into that charges the poor customer a fee. Maybe if he didn't my next sale or ten sales would have been made at his store?

If it's true that these guys do not get paid for their work, then I take back what I said in my statement above.

 

I believe that if a person performs work for someone he should get paid for it, period.

 

If this is the case (so far I haven't seen any "certified titles" under anyone who's posted) then MTH needs to change their policy so these folks get paid.

Bob - yep, if true, MTH should be paying these guys.

Does Lionel pay their shops for warranty repair?

Look! If you expect loyalty, than buy from your local hobby shop. If you bought it elsewhere, than you have the responsibility to ship it back to MTH (or Lionel) for any warranty service. Repair out of warranty is another story. But I will tell you that expecting an estimate for a repair based on simple bench tests are over and to even do a complex estimate for $25 is fair if you decide not to fix it! If you decide to fix, then the $25 is applied against the repair.

 

If you think it is fun to compete with mail order or bang out prices at YORK and then do even the handling, never mind any labor for a stranger's convenience, you misunderstand your responsibility in the situation.

Yes, but only like $12

Actually at least of of the people who responded is a certified MTH tech

Actually its a sliding rate depending on the repair but its close to minimum wage and assumes you are as good and lucky ( correct initial diagnosis ) as the the guys in Ohio.

 

Pete

 

My understanding is that Lionel requires people to spend a week in Ohio in training.

In terms of the "responsibility" of the poor slob who just dropped $1000 or more on a defective loco and is looking at a fee to get it fixed under warranty - this is an MTH issue to rectify.  Or, to put things in perspective, you should also be OK if your new car that's under warranty has defects and your local dealer tells you that he charges a $500 fee for every warranty visit. Same goes for your toaster, refrigerator, oven, etc. Please...

BINGO!

Some hobby shops have strange policies and employees!

Years ago, I took one of my uncle's steam locomotives for repair to a hobby shop, which has been long out of business. 

Inside, I noticed hand printed signs, attached to shelves, reading; " All sales of items by appointment only!"

Right then and there, I should have realized that I was in for a real ordeal, worst than working in dangerous areas of my former profession!

I showed a 'Gentleman!,' behind a counter, my uncle's loco. and asked if it could be repaired.

Without saying a word, the fine 'Gentleman' points to a label affixed to the underside of the loco's., cab's inner side, overhang, it stated; "Madison Hardware."

I said; "Yeah! My uncle bought the loco. years ago and the place is in the City and difficult to reach, now-a-days!!"

He just stares at me and I give him a mean stare back, which I have learned to use, due to my profession, at that time! You know, a standoff!

Nothing got accomplished, because I left the store with my uncle's still defective loco., never to return!!!!!!

Ralph 

Sounds like a good deal to me.  25.00 to fix a broken train is cheap

I fully agree with what Chris said above. The dealer is entitled to make some $$$ somewhere. I think that it is very wrong for MTH not to pay the dealer for repairing the item that they produced and is still uner warranty.

The savings when buying on the internet is big. I can only speak about the NYC subways. The saving can be a hundred bucks or slightly more. I've bought over three hundred four car sets on the internet over the past eleven years and only had to eat the repair on two. So on that rare occasion that I need a repair, the savings is more than worth it.

 

* Authorized Service Centers (ASC) are only obligated to provide warranty service for any consumer who has purchased the specific M.T.H. item from them that requires service work.

As is often the case, that's only half the story. Unless the rules have recently changed the following sums up the warranty repair scenarios:

• National ASC's (NASC's) are obligated to repair any in-warranty claim, regardless of where it was purchased.
• NASC's are compensated by MTH for labor and MTH supplies parts at no charge. (ASC's also get parts at no charge.)
• Every MTH tech goes through an intensive training course at MTH headquarters in Columbia, MD.

When I had an MTH engine that required repair I sent it back to MTH.  To me, I'd rather deal directly with them.  Total "turn-around" time was about one week, and I think it cost me $12 or $13 to send the engine back to MTH.

 

Now, as for the ASC technician charging $25, I don't know all the details, but with my other past-time, bowling, the shop has a large, and I mean large sign posted, stating that bowling balls purchased from them will be drilled free of charge, all others are charges a fee.  So I think, based on the economy/loyalty/etc. the reward for purchasing from your local shop is free repair work, but the down side is higher costs.

 

I think it is just a matter of deciding what is best for you and dealing with your decision, pay the higher costs and have them repair it, or shop on-line or elsewhere and have to send it back to the manufacture for repair.

 

Darren

Why would anyone want to be an MTH Repair Center if they are not getting paid for the labor to repair the product.

 

They could only make some money by selling MTH parts that they buy at a discount.

I was one of the original MTH ASC's. And being cussed out one too many times after explaining the "Purchased Here" for free warranty work policy is one of many reasons I stopped being an MTH ASC.

 

 

Exactly my thoughts as well

 

The only winner in this situation is MTH

 

It reminds me of the mail in rebate offers where the company makes you jump through so many hoops that getting the rebate is not worth the effort and time.

 

The customer has to pay something for fixing MTH's DEFECTIVE item regardless of the choice made

 

Buy from LHS and pay premium price

Pay $25.00 fee if bought online etc.

Pay for shipping if sending to MTH (not to mention risk of damage or loss)

 

There is nothing Free about any option!

At one time MTH used to do repairs at the York Eastern Division meets. You could drop off your engine in the morning and pick it up a few hours later fixed. They might have been doing this when they had a tent at the fairgrounds so you did not even need to be a TCA member to get the repairs done.

 

Lionel also had a tent at the same time so the general public could see what new products they had coming up. This is also where the H.O.R.D.E. tour layout was first displayed along with the jumbotron. I still have a signed video of the operating layout in the tent.

Ben and others that stated $25.00 is cheap to fix an engine are right on. And as a MTH ASC Tech I can tell you that MTH doesn't pay an ASC Repair Facility a penny for labor, period, no maybe's, if's, ands, or buts about it.  Local shop around here charges $32.50 minimum if not purchased from them. You can't expect anyone to work for free. Don't like it, send it back to MTH, they will repair it under warranty, of course it might take awhile longer. 

 from LHS and pay premium price  And still had to pay $20. to get light fixed that was  warranty

Do shops that do Lionel warranty repairs get paid, or do you have to send it back to Lionel too?

 

Rob, see above. They get paid but the rate is a bit lower than what your local auto dealer charges for repairs.

 

Pete

The response Paul S. (VaGolfer1950) gave is the one that makes the most sense to me.  And when it comes right down to it, service policies for both of the two major manufacturers aren't all that different.

I've never had a warranty issue so I can't speak about my experiences but I take my trains to MB Kleins and in the old days Frenchs Trains on Conklin St. in Baltimore and I never once had then refuse to do a repair simply because I didn't buy it there. Yes they did charge me parts and labor and after a few years of being a loyal customer every now and then they would throw me a bone like replacing a wire or traction tire or bulb for free if they noticed it needed it during a repair.

Did the original poster contact MTH about the shop in question?

If an LHS won't do a warranty repair on an item simply because you didn't buy it from him if MTH doesn't know about it how can they be expected to resolve it? Coming on here and complaining about it might allow you to vent and commiserate but I really don't think MTH cruises the various forums looking for service or product issues that need to be addressed.

 

Jerry

The reality is that the local hobby shop does not make enough margin on the trains to repair them for free and not obtain reimbursement from the manufacturer.  Otherwise, if they were paid at a level that was economically viable, the hobby shops would do the work.  But the manufacturers pay very little, and folks come in with a train they didn't buy at the store.  What would you do if you were in their shoes with rent to pay?

 

Compare this with a completely different economic model that uses dealers:  automobiles.  From what a friend in that business explained to me, when you have a car with a warranty repair, the manufacturer will pay basically the same as the retail customer.  This is the manufacturer's way of controlling the dealers from ripping off the customers.  But the manufacturer will essentially pay the dealership a retail rate for the repair.  So the dealer is always happy, and economically speaking, incentivized, to keep the customer happy when there is an issue.  But this is on a purchase that is typically the second largest purchase you make after a home, so they want to keep you happy.

 

Train manufacturers want to keep you happy, but the price of the item limits what they will do to keep you happy.  Don't like the policy at the local dealer?  Send it back to Lionel, MTH, or Williams, as the case may be. 

 

Thanks Barry for setting us straight on MTH warranty policy. With that said, I think it is still an MTH issue - but shared with the customer base. Customers should inform MTH of how these ACSs are nickel and diming customers. And maybe MTH, even at this point, might remi d it's ACSs of MTH expectations.

Seems like the manufacturer is not truly standing behind its product, but rather putting its service centers on the hook for defective items.  This defies the term "manufacturers warranty" but does make "limited" very accurate!

Or (insert drum roll) take the course yourself and learn how to repair your own trains. Then you can repair other's trains for free.

 

Pete

I am lucky enough to be within 20 miles of three (3) Lionel and MTH authorized repair stations.  1 of the 3 will not do free warranty work if you did not buy the item from him.  Guess what, as my attorney likes to say!

Comparison you make is like defending Obama care.

You obviously have no clue what it takes in time and effort to work on this stuff. You spend your money with my store, I will take care of you, if not I will still help you, but it will cost you, whether you know 'up front' or not.

$25 is a good deal!

Actually the automotive manufacture will pay customers labor rate but at a amount of time they think it can be done in. When you open the hood of your car, ask your self if you can remove the engine, swap parts and reinstall and running in less than 10 hours.

I understand what you are saying.  At the same time, a friend of mine who is a tech at a large luxury car franchise explained that the techs often (not always) will find ways to do things in much less time than the book specifies.

The point remains, however, that it is unfair to hold a toy train dealer responsible for the manufacturer's issue when the margins are far too small.  And at the same time, for customers who buy a great deal of merchandise in a store, my sense is that such a local store would step up at that point, becuase they have an interest in the relationship.  But today, too many people want to reap the reward of discount pricing and then act shocked and surprised when something goes wrong that they are treated like a bargain shopper.  To me, it's not right or wrong, it's just being reasonable in terms of your expectations and walking a few steps in the other guy's shoes.

 

quote:

Why would anyone want to be an MTH Repair Center if they are not getting paid for the labor to repair the product.

 

I've read a lot of Lionel service station material, and known a number of folks who were involved the the hobby shop business. According to my understanding, the primary business reason for being an authorized repair center was not make a profit on the service. It was to bring people in the door, get them to buy something else while they were there, and to come back again.

I assume this would apply to MTH service as well.

Whether this still applies today is unknown to me.

I would think that the piece of mind you get from knowing your item isn't going to get damaged in the mail is worth the $25-$35 repair fee.  Even if you paid for insurance I encourage you to ask someone who filed a claim feels about the time and effort it takes to do so and get paid in the end.   I'm confident that 99% of us would pay the repair fee. 

 

--Greg

 

quote:

 At the same time, a friend of mine who is a tech at a large luxury car franchise explained that the techs often (not always) will find ways to do things in much less time than the book specifies.

 

I am very close to someone who is a certified mechanic.
It's true that mechanics often have tricks to save time on a job. Sometimes having a specialized tool helps. Still, he hates warantee work, probably because the manufacturer rarely allows enough time.

 

IMHO, not all dealer service centers are the same.

I recently had my car to a dealer for the factory suggested 60,000 mile service.

When I found out they were going to shortcut the job and not do everything the manufacturer suggested (at a reduced price), I went to another dealer who performed the entire service (cost quite a bit more).

The last two Lionel products we purchased, from two different brick and mortar stores, had issues right out of the box but we discvered the stores do not do any repairs. One item, Legacy 990, was returned for a refund, the other item we repaired since the defective smoke unit was cheaper purchasing than shipping back via insured UPS. Saved a lot since then by purchasing used.

And still had to pay $20. to get light fixed that was  warranty

Bulbs and batteries are not warranted by MTH.

Imagine if the car dealers said, if you didn't by the car from us, we have to charge you for the warranty work or a flat fee...that would be unacceptable to the general public.

 

So I see why it rubs people the wrong way.

 

To be fair, when a car dealer does warranty service work, they get reimbursed by the manufacturer.

 

Is a warranty service where they really don't pay for the repair really a warranty?

And, based on our (LHS) own service tech's experience (He's since retired...), the training costs (NOT cheap!) and overnight living/transportation costs were all borne by the trainee, individual or shop.  In committing to an outlay of this sort...especially if you're some distance from the training site...you're expecting to get a return on your investment.  The LHS is hoping it will enhance original sales, the profit from which is what pays bills, puts food on their table, clothes on the family, buys their health care (!!!!!!), puts their kids through college, creates a nest egg for retirement, pays their staff, pays bank financing interest, pays mortgages, pays insurance, etc., etc., etc., more blah, blah, blah. 

 

But if experience shows they're getting a disproportionate amount of warranty product service from someone else's sales (internet, the 'other' LHS 1000+ miles away, etc., blah, blah) why wouldn't they be expected to recover the expenses of providing this service?

 

These aren't concepts really that hard to understand.  It's really unfortunate that, beginning at an early age...say K-12...,they aren't more a part of core curricula in American education.  However, we now live in an era of expectation that fairness will be foisted by fiat, not common sense. 

 

The struggles of today's LHS....   Now there's a 'reality story/show' you'll never see on the tube. 

 

KD

 

Like tires and batteries on cars.

I used to work as a dealership tech. 

There was one type of car that had a known problem with wheel alignments. 

I got paid 3.0 hrs to do these alignments. 

After doing so many of them, I got so good at it that could do them in under half that times. And that included the before and after road test. 

Lionel does not charge for the training. You are expected to pay for transportation, food and lodging though. Also Parts kits and testing jigs are extra if required. Someone familiar with electronics and how the modules are supposed to work can make their own test jigs. That said you don't have to be an EE to get through the course. If you know basic electronics (difference between a resistor and a transistor) and are familiar with a multimeter you can likely pass the course.

 

Pete

Barry
If MTH or Lionel for that matter refuse to cover the cost associated with a defective product and thereby leave the consumer and/or the LHS onthe hook, that is fine.  Let the buyer beware, but they should not call it a "warranty".

Barry
If MTH or Lionel for that matter refuse to cover the cost associated with a defective product and thereby leave the consumer and/or the LHS onthe hook, that is fine.  Let the buyer beware, but they should not call it a "warranty".

This assumes every repair station is competent and honest and within reach.

 

I returned a Lionel warranty repair to Ohio (no "authorized" repair stations close enough, trust me, this is Texas) and had it back fixed perfect in a week even though it was less than two weeks until the end of the warranty period.  Not a high dollar engine, but even so, no charge for the fix or the return postage.

 

Pete

I do have to wonder how the problems of obtaining warranty service -- especially on DOA merchandise -- discourages people from continuing in the hobby or from buying new stuff.

 

Tony

Up on "The D & H Bridge Line"

Reading this thread, perhaps some will begin to see (1) the importance of having and supporting a brick-and-mortar hobby shop, and (2) the gradual but progressive downward spiral/impactl that Internet and online auction sales are having on this and many other hobbies.

 

It's laughable to see a comparison sometimes  made with how car makers handle warranties.  This hobby--the entire hobby of model railroading--is a mere fly speck compared to the scale of sales and service opportunities car makers deal with on even a daily basis.

I honestly do not have a problem paying my LHS a fee for a warranty repair. One of the great advantage's of dealing with my LHS is over time we got to know each other and with that comes a few perks. I rarely pay sticker price for items, we are on a first name basis, and when I see a Vision Line in the display case that I gotta have, they offer me a nice layaway program free of charge. Sometimes it's hard to just drop $1200-1800 at once with a wife, 2 kids, house and vehicle payments. 

That being said, I don't mind paying fee for a warranty repair because I want them to stick around. They are one of the last of the little guys trying to get by.

If MTH or Lionel for that matter refuse to cover the cost associated with a defective product

I repeat, if an MTH product is within its warranty period, the owner can have it repaired at no charge in one of three ways:

• Take or send it to MTH
• Take or send it to an MTH NASC (National Authorized Service Center)
• Take it to the LHS where it was purchased. If they're an MTH ASC, they'll repair it at no charge. If not, I expect that they would ship it to MTH on your behalf.

What's the problem?

I had a very negative experience a few years ago from a Toyota dealer. It was a company car that was delivered from a fleet dealer in NJ. Made an appointment with the local Toyota dealer to get the car serviced when I showed up at the dealer  they refused to work on a fleet vehicle. Took it to another Toyota dealer much further away from my home and they took care of me.

 

So, it seems that some automobile dealers don't always work on cars that they did not sell.

They are not supposed to be from Lionel either but when the led in my PRR U28c did not light up Lionel fixed it at no charge. I had only had the engine for a couple of days.

Unfortunately as someone else pointed out items can get damaged in shipment and that is what happened when I got the engine back from them. Broken snow plow, front pilot and front railing. No indication of any damage on the ob or shipping carton so it must have happened at the repair facility in Ohio.

For anything that's a decent amount of use into the warranty period, I can see the concerns (though the official policy was spelled out quite clearly when MTH rolled it out, it's not obvious if you are newer to the hobby and haven't read all the fine print differentiating NASC from ASC)

 

For all the DOA issues, it's quite simple.  Send it back to wherever it came from and get a refund(pretty much every credit card company will back you if you receive a defective item and it's not made right).  Until the supply chain has to actually deal with all the latent defects in a way that is more painful, the quality control issues will remain in the state they are in (or get worse). 

 

While it's unfortunate that that impacts the place of purchase as well as the importer whose name is on the box, that's not really the consumer's problem.  We (as a group) are far too willing to go to extensive measures at our own cost/effort to fix items that are broken right out of the box.

 

-Dave

I agree.  I would just be happy to have somebody local who knows how to fix the latest MTH trains and their electronics.  Warranty or not.  Plus if I can avoid shipping my $1000 plus steamers I will.  The more they get shipped the greater the chance of collateral damage. 

It is called the flat rate manual and the entire new car industry uses it.  Nothing new here.  Move along.  Most jobs take less than the flat rate so the dealer service makes profit on the time spent and the profit in the labor rate.

I believe, unless the customer is provided a mailing label by MTH (rare) the customer pays the shipping TO MTH, and MTH then covers the return shipping as part of the warranty service.  IIRC, Jimmy Sutter (Jim's Train Shop) would often reimburse his customers if they had a DOA and had to ship it back to MTH for repair.

I worked at a hobby shop and I am affiliated for repairs at others.  I am an ASC on my own and I have also done work for MTH to help reduce the back load.

 

I can't get to Lionel course as they have not held it going on 2 plus years now.  Yet I am can fix the TMCC stuff and even some Legacy.  Lionel pretty much has most warranty go back to them.

 

Even the local Large Lionel Dealer stopped being a Lionel Service Center.  He fixes all stuff for customers who buy from him and turns the others out the door.

 

The smaller Store sees customers walk in before X-mas, he demonstrates the trains, explains the differences and then they walk out and buy it on the internet.  When they show up the day after X-mas because it was defective out of the box.  How can he repair it, or why should he take responsibility for shipping it to Lionel.  Since we are not an authorized repair shop because Lionel Won't hold the course, we would have to pay for parts without discount and receive no reimbursement.

 

If I can fix it I will, to try to generate customer loyalty, but that only can carry you so far.

 

As for MTH as an ASC there is not compensation, just free parts.  But customers who buy from us get full service.  As stated earlier the customer can always send to MTH or a NASC.  The NASC while compensated receive a credit.  G

 

 

I know this store, Route 46 in Parsippany, maybe?

Proof, whether you are a buyer or seller, things today are tough all over.

 

When I was a kid, I needed work on a Lionel train and I went to the local service center, Chuck Robbins Sporting Goods store in Wilkes-Barre, PA. They are long gone. They did the work. No problem. It was a different world then. Today, there are many, many more choices and no one is beholden to just one place for the work and the purchase.

 

Come to think of it, back then, my Dad bought Lionel trains at the local American Auto store, near where he worked at Planters Peanuts. So, even then, there were issues. So, perhaps some things never change.

 

He made the purchases when I was younger; when I was older I went to the service store. However, I do recall sending an item (re-string a crane car) back to the Hillside plant. I must have been picky.

 

My conclusion: shop local if you can. But,its not always easy, just considering the logistics of buying from your home computer and going someplace, even forgetting about  any price differential

.

 

Very true!  One just has to keep in mind that there are tradeoffs.  There's nothing like having a local hobby shop to frequent and turn to when repairs might be needed.  But if the lowest price is your primary objective, or if you really have no alternative, there's always the wide, wide world of the Internet.  Maybe you'll get what you're looking for, and maybe it will perform well for you.  BUT, if you run into a problem, it's a bit unreasonable to expect that you're going to be home free in terms of getting it fixed.

 

WE made the situation what it is today, so there's little to be gained in crying about it.

The manufactures flat rate is total different than what a independant uses.

barrister2u,

Counselor, I miss seeing the Mr. Peanut statues, outside of the old Planters's Peanut factory.

Ralph

 

<<<<Since we are not an authorized repair shop because Lionel Won't hold the course, we would have to pay for parts without discount and receive no reimbursement.>>>>

 

Not quite correct.  An authorized Lionel dealer can get parts at a 25% discount.  While it's not the 50% that an authorized service station gets it's something.

 

At the October York Mike told me he is working on an on-line service course.  Too early for a timeline though.  He is aware of the time since the last course and the difficulty that is creating.  It is being worked on.

What's all this talk about it being a long time since the last MTH tech course? Gunrunnerjohn just took the course about a month or so ago.

He's referring to Mike Regan being aware of the long expanse of time since Lionel last offered a TMCC/Legacy tech course, not Mike Wolf of MTH.

I don't get the complaint.  If you save 100.00 dollars buying online and the train needs a 25.00 repair you are still ahead 75.00.

John,

He's referring to Mike Regan being aware of the long expanse of time since Lionel last offered a TMCC/Legacy tech course, not Mike Wolf of MTH.

Thanks for clearing that up!

Peter,

 

A few observations regarding your rant...

• You generalized from a (your) specific instance
• You aren't paying attention to what others have said
• You appear to be very angry.

Regardless, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I. I'm done with this topic and will move on down the road. Feel free to have the "last word".

Quite an eye-opening discussion to say the least.  

 

David

Or the customer's impression of Lionel, Bachmann, Atlas, etc., etc.  All of what you write about is based on individual circumstances (your circumstances in this case) with individual dealers, all of whom are independent business owners.

 

You're pretty good at taking quotes out of context, but at this point your anger/frustration/whatever has gotten the better of you so I'll join some others in simply backing off.  Here's hoping you enjoy your trains, no matter which brand you may prefer! 

 

And, by the way, it's Allan, not Alan (he's our ad sales guy).

 

 

In cold business terms, this is MTH downloading the cost of "warranty"(?) repairs on the backs of both consumers and their dealer network.

 

Does not really say anything positive about the way MTH treats either.

 

In cold business terms, this is MTH downloading the cost of "warranty"(?) repairs on the backs of both consumers and their dealer network.

You're kidding, right?