Opinions on JLC GG1

Well, the JLC GG1 has many models with zinc rot on the sideframes, and they're unobtainium right now.  So, if you're buying the JLC model, make sure it's "rot free".  I have a couple of the JLC models, one has replacement sideframes and the other was rot-free.

The top two are JLC GG1's, and the bottom one is a Williams scale model.

@BradFish1 posted:

I'm considering buying a JLC GG1 or a Vision Line. I'd appreciate any opinions from owners and pros or cons. Thanks in advance.

Both are true 1:48 models unlike the Weaver, MTH, and Williams "scale versions" which have smaller drive wheels and are shorter to more easily negotiate 072 curves.  I have both a JLC and a Vision Line GG1 and they are very nice models.  The only other 3 rail 1:48 scale GG1 is the 3rd Rail Version, but while gorgeous models, they are underpowered.

The downside it the propensity for the zinc rot on truck side frames on the JLC versions as mentioned.  My other complaint is the plastic pantographs.  They do not flex like other models.  Not a problem if you are not using a catenary system, but if you plan on doing a trolley wire someday, just understand that issue.

I always enjoy reposting this picture for the fun of it.

@GG1 4877 posted:

I always enjoy reposting this picture for the fun of it.

Great picture, don't give me ideas.  Of course, I only have four GG1's, so my picture wouldn't be as impressive.

You guys have convinced me to wait and find a Vision Line. Thanks.

Personally, I went for the JLC over the Vision.  Both use the same tooling, except for the #4800 "Old Rivets".  Sound wise they are both very good with two speakers and a nice, beefy sounding horn, and I personally can't tell a difference side-by-side.  Because the JLC is Railsounds 5.0, it features full roadnumber-specific dialog, which is now touted as a "Vision" feature.  The primary features of the Vision over the JLC are two LED lights in the pantographs which "spark" and Legacy speed control.  For me, that wasn't worth the price difference of ~$2000 for the Vision vs. ~$600-$800 for the JLC.

A word on reliability: I used to work in a hobby shop and I was around when the Vision GG1 came out.  Almost every one we sold had to come back for repairs.  Most of the issues were related to the pantographs, but there were other assorted QC issues, too.  I wouldn't let that risk stop me from getting a Vision GG1 if I really wanted one, but it's something to be aware of that you may need to do some fixes yourself to get it/keep it working 100%.

As for the JLC GG1, it is well known that many have issues with zinc rot on the main truck side frames.  Before purchasing one, I did some research, though.  Based on digging through forum posts and using Worthpoint for auction history, I found this:

The GG1s were produced in ~2.5 batches.  The first batch was cataloged in 2004 volume two and included the red single-stripe (6-18354), green 5-stripe (6-18355), and Penn Central (6-18356).  For my research, I couldn't find a single concrete example or photo of these exhibiting zinc pest on the trucks.

The second batch was cataloged in 2005 volume two and included the red 5-stripe (6-18371) and green single-stripe (6-18372).  These seem to be hit-or-miss with the zinc rot, however it seems any particular engine is either totally affected with trucks crumbling to dust, or totally unaffected.  No "mild cases" by this point in time.

Finally, in 2006 volume one, a silver red-stripe model (6-18374) was added.  These seem to be nearly 100% affected by the zinc rot.

My take (but still take your precautions) is that the first batch of frames was good, the second, bad.  Therefore, the second run of GG-1s that used up the rest of the first run of frames the factory probably still had in stock were good but the ones using the second batch were bad.

Also of note for the JLC is that I've encountered some motor binding issues but usually I've found this to be caused by the smoke funnel pressing on the top of the flywheel under the roof hatch.  Also, for a model that has suffered zinc rot, small flecks of frame metal can get stuck to the drive gears and cause them to bind.

Anyway, some information from my travels I'm happy to share.  They're both beautiful, though not perfect, models and best of luck with whichever one you choose. FWIW, I also have an MTH Premier PS3 one that just runs and runs problem-free...

Ahhh, its great to see a GG1 thread. My first O scale engine was a JLC GG1. Still have it. The OP is in good hands here with this bunch. In my experience Jonathan is the Dean of all things GG1, and everyone else has good things to say too. That’s an awesome lineup of seven GG1s in Jonathan’s photo, but I know he has way more than that. The topic of zinc rot, its chemistry, and analysis from a manufacturing and business standpoint have been discussed so thoroughly in a variety of threads on the Forum that I am happy it can just be mentioned along the way here rather than stealing the spotlight from some great models.

Woody’s comments are on target. If you are looking at it from a rational point of view, the case can be made that the JLC GG1 is a better value if it does not have zinc rot. You need to be sure to inspect it closely before purchase (in person or with comprehensive close up, well-lit photos) and ensure that zinc rot is not in play. The tooling and many details of the JLC are the same as the Vision Line. Wise parents would advise their kids to spend their paper route money on a good JLC. But I am anything but rational about GG1s and paying a lot extra for a Vision Line is justifiable for me. But you might almost be able to buy two good JLC GG1s for the price of one Vision Line.

What if you buy a good one and it breaks down? The topic of repair of JLC (without zinc rot) and Vision Line GG1s is worth discussing. My understanding is that replacement parts from Lionel are extremely limited.

I’d love to hear comments from someone who owns a Kohs & Company GG1. And someone who powers their GG1 through a catenary.

@Catonsville Central Railway posted:

Personally, I went for the JLC over the Vision.  Both use the same tooling, except for the #4800 "Old Rivets".  Sound wise they are both very good with two speakers and a nice, beefy sounding horn, and I personally can't tell a difference side-by-side.  Because the JLC is Railsounds 5.0, it features full roadnumber-specific dialog, which is now touted as a "Vision" feature.  The primary features of the Vision over the JLC are two LED lights in the pantographs which "spark" and Legacy speed control.  For me, that wasn't worth the price difference of ~$2000 for the Vision vs. ~$600-$800 for the JLC.

A word on reliability: I used to work in a hobby shop and I was around when the Vision GG1 came out.  Almost every one we sold had to come back for repairs.  Most of the issues were related to the pantographs, but there were other assorted QC issues, too.  I wouldn't let that risk stop me from getting a Vision GG1 if I really wanted one, but it's something to be aware of that you may need to do some fixes yourself to get it/keep it working 100%.

As for the JLC GG1, it is well known that many have issues with zinc rot on the main truck side frames.  Before purchasing one, I did some research, though.  Based on digging through forum posts and using Worthpoint for auction history, I found this:

The GG1s were produced in ~2.5 batches.  The first batch was cataloged in 2004 volume two and included the red single-stripe (6-18354), green 5-stripe (6-18355), and Penn Central (6-18356).  For my research, I couldn't find a single concrete example or photo of these exhibiting zinc pest on the trucks.

The second batch was cataloged in 2005 volume two and included the red 5-stripe (6-18371) and green single-stripe (6-18372).  These seem to be hit-or-miss with the zinc rot, however it seems any particular engine is either totally affected with trucks crumbling to dust, or totally unaffected.  No "mild cases" by this point in time.

Finally, in 2006 volume one, a silver red-stripe model (6-18374) was added.  These seem to be nearly 100% affected by the zinc rot.

My take (but still take your precautions) is that the first batch of frames was good, the second, bad.  Therefore, the second run of GG-1s that used up the rest of the first run of frames the factory probably still had in stock were good but the ones using the second batch were bad.

I'm in your camp, I looked at the VL GG1, but couldn't swallow the added loot for some flashing lights.  I bought my 6-18372 at York for $450 NIB years ago, I was just lucky that it had no zinc rot.  My -18374 I put together with pieces from two and the replacement molded frames as it's sideframes were indeed toast.

FWIW, I've worked on a few VL GG1's, all but one were pantograph issues.  Those pan are very delicate, and it doesn't take much to break them.

@gunrunnerjohn - are the replacement molded frames still available through you / Hennings?

@GG1 4877 posted:

Navy - Army game day at Philadelphia!

@Prr7688 posted:

@gunrunnerjohn - are the replacement molded frames still available through you / Hennings?

Not currently, but Henning's is trying to get up to speed with the new 3D printer to make some.

To Catonsville Central Railway- thanks for the detailed production info/production timeline on the JLC GG1’s to help buyers ID the ones that would most likely be afflicted with zinc rot. This is very helpful.